577. - Moshe Kasher

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? Coming to you live from New York City, both of us, different locations, but both in New York City. Jason, how are you feeling? I'm full. I just ate suan. I mean, that's not really a filling. Did you get the famous guacamole there? I got the edamame guacamole and a macro plate. That's the Chris order, actually. That's funny. That's literally exactly what I get. What's your dressing story? Miso tahini, of course. That's what I got too. Crazy. I think that's kind of the house dressing is my understanding because the miso tahini also comes as a spread for the cornbread, which is a nice combo as well. That does sound nice. Yeah. I mean, eating a big bowl of steamed vegetables and brown rice and the bean of the day. That's true. The bean of the day. The bean of the day. Once bean of the day hits, all bets are off. I'm full, but it's not a bad full. It's a hearty, heartwarming, clean full. A clean, hearty full. Were you able to get a coffee maybe on the walk back to get your kind of blood flowing again? Well, no. I got a coffee before. I went with a friend of the show, Liam, and we're going to meet there at 1230. We show up.

Not open until 1 p.m. So we went and had a cortado at Abrajo. Damn, you had a full Chris East Village. I know, you were missing out. I was talking to Liam about this, about how... how kind of i i respect and i like how audacious and ridiculous it is for a restaurant to open at 1 p.m you know yeah same same you can't hate but stand yeah i can't hate but i'll also be exasperated if i go there at 12 30 and can't eat till one you know it's a it's a it's one of those situations where i respect it but how many um how many dogs and strollers do you have to kick out of the way to get into a brasso or was it just well since we showed up at 12 59 There were no customers. That's perfect. But many, many, many to-go orders were shipped and delivered before my food hit the table. But, you know, Biden's America. That's a big – no, I was saying it a Brasso is what I was saying. That's more of a scene. But you didn't have a treat there, did you? No, no, no. We just had coffee. But there was like – there were no dogs. That's good. They had a no-dog policy, which was rare to see in New York. I was telling you this earlier, but I have seen, and Carolyn commented on this as well, way more dogs indoors at restaurants in New York than Los Angeles. What's up with that, bro? I don't know if I can say the same, but I also don't know if I pay attention. I don't like dogs anywhere, so I don't even know if I notice. You don't pay attention. No, I'm saying I don't think I notice them. I just notice them constantly, and I don't like them, whether it's on the street where they belong, whether it's a dog park, whether it's a restaurant, a grocery store. I don't care where they are. They should be at home behind a gate where I don't have to look at it. Behind the gate. But I do think that, yeah. Should be in a kill shelter if you ask me. No, I wouldn't go that far. I think all lives matter. Yeah, even the cockroach, huh? Yeah, even the cockroach. Cockroach can't do anything to you. They don't give you any diseases. They don't bite you. They don't give you poison. They just want to chill. But are you talking about... This is what cockroach says. You going to finish that? That's it. Are you done?

My question to you is, are these dogs small and in a bag? Mostly, but sometimes they're out. Sometimes they're wagging. I think in L.A., it's like you have to have the paperwork. It has to be a service dog, and it's like a whole thing, and everyone's like, but in New York, I think everyone's just like, it's easier to just let them rock, and then if something bad happens, then we can say it. Ask for forgiveness, not for permission type vibes. Yeah. But it really is one of those things that is giving Los Angeles so much more than New York. But the times are changing, aren't they? Now that we're in a monoculture. Everything is the same, bro. I've been saying that. I sent you a story that came across my desk from a platform I try not to click on, Slate. But it's basically an expose on the scam. that we all know and some of us used clear at the airport a profit seeking entity has no place in a federally mandated process and there's nothing hazy about that is the is the deck of the story nothing hazy about it that's nice i haven't been able to you know make it all the way through but it is it is getting to the point where i think there's going to be a clear reckoning you know and i don't think i don't think it's going to end with slate i think there's going to be some bigger fishes fighting. Yeah, well, I had some firsthand experience with this on the flight over here. Carolyn and I, we went and used the clear line. Obviously, holiday season, airport's going crazy. So this is the time where we're grateful to have priority entrance. We've paid the money. We did the paperwork. We did the retinal scan, piss test, DNA swabbing. So now we get to go in the expedite line. I use no hyperbole when I say that I had to show my ID to four different people when I used Clear, the system that is designed to not ever have to produce identification. Well, the thing about Clear is that somehow they found people...

dumber than tsa agents to employ and that is what's shocking about it you're paying a service for someone who can't read good to ask you to see your id five times that that's the issue i have with it doesn't it seems like the the kind of inmates are ruling the asylum type vibe yeah and it doesn't work for me i noticed so nowadays you know as the crow flies wherever you're traveling The only real difference now between a Clear employee and a TSA employee is people who work for Clear are allowed to listen to music while they're working, and in TSA, people are not. That's the sole difference. So you're saying the government puts their foot down at AirPods as a TSA agent. Clear kind of lets you rock the right one while you check people out. I've never been helped by a Clear employee who did not have one. One headphone, one AirPod, one Bose, one Beats by Dre in-ear. Well, that's the other fucked up part. That's the other fucked up part I'm noticing a lot lately. Could be listening to Huberman. I don't know. I see people leaving a pretty low-paying job. Young people, you know what I mean? They're doing exactly what they should be doing. We all had low-paying jobs that age. All of these young people... have seven hundred dollar airpod maxes on and i'm just starting to wonder what's going on like what or do you think that that generation is prioritizing the airpod max over food and water do you think they have six roommates so they can rock the airpods max i just don't i i see it on people that literally work at pret and i'm like this doesn't make sense the answer is yes yes and all yes i mean this is the same i think it's this i think it's now because The $700 headphones are a piece of wearable fashion and sat a symbol. It's the same thing as all of our friends who don't make very much money, who drive nice leased cars that they can afford and wear Margiela pants and all this shit. It's just like, yeah, I straight up don't have other things in my life that most people have, like food and water and shelter and all that shit.

because it's worth it to me to be able to walk around with these dope headphones on. The priorities are not straight, but, you know, that's been going on. I mean, we've all known those people, people in high school and everything, where it's just like, you have a minimum wage job with the pod is on. I mean, yeah, it's the same idea as the... Guys in L.A. who, you know. Eating saltines for dinner. Got the G-Wagon in front at the one-bedroom apartment in North Hollywood. You know, so the priorities are out of whack. But that's kind of what our society, it's not their fault. You know, it's the pressures of society, Jason. They can't. Yeah, and I guess if you live in New York or another walkable metropolitan urban sprawl, you don't. Have your car note. You don't have the Hellcat doing $1,200 on the chase every month. So you can afford the cans. I didn't have to tint the windows or anything. So it's nothing for me to buy headphones that I don't need. I mean, I guess, though, I respect it more to buy something like that strictly for aesthetic purposes versus pretending to understand audio fidelity. Oh, yeah. It's all aesthetic. You know what I mean? That's even worse to me. So I kind of appreciate. that it's out in the open. I only care about what these look like. It doesn't really matter what they sound like. That's cool. They're not mixing engineers. They're not mixing engineers. I wanted to give a shout out to a friend of the show, Uncle Pauly, for his new Las Vegas location that just opened. It's open now. Yeah, I think it's open. I think it's open. So if you're in Vegas, if you're going to kind of lose your family and house because you have a gambling problem, You know where to get a sandwich kind of right after you lost it all after the fifth free vodka soda at the craps table. You brought the house note from the lockbox. It's a great place to just grab a BLT and kind of wash your sorrows away. You know what I mean? I'll be there for AVN this year as I am every year, and I'll be expensing those.

those trays, those party platters. I think we need to do a Them Jeans special at Uncle Pauly's Las Vegas during the AVN conference. This is a great idea. I go for CES, of course, but AVN just happens to be going on at the same time. I don't know why. Who do you think is eating better? The AVN crowd or the CES crowd? I think it's the AVN crowd because the CES crowd, those are the people getting the Wagyu sliders. At Hakkasan, you know, it's all vanity food. It's gold flake bullshit going on. It's true. AVM people, they're going off strip for the Philly cheesesteak. Those are people who are eating alone. The food is for prioritizing enjoyment and pleasure, not for networking and impressing clients. You're jacking off alone. You're eating alone. Yeah. And don't worry, I got a new PlayStation if you guys want to check it out. No, that is the vibe. I mean, I've been to see. I've actually been one time. Yeah, I DJed an event for Cisco. They had a great router that was dropping that year. And I DJed a Cisco Systems party in a luxury suite in some hotel. playstation release event at because they were on a sony owned record label so it all made sense they probably got more money than i did i'm guessing we did pretty good on that one yeah but that was it was a it was was it worth it i don't know i'm still thinking about it today of course no i mean but because back then you know there was no there was no digital paparazzi social media anything like that so you could play a party in vegas for a private trade show and nobody will be the wiser except for people at the uh at the water cooler on monday you know yeah except all this cisco those guys rocked cisco employees hitting you up asking you to send them some remix links on youtube the next day because they love your set so much you know a guy in girl talk i heard of him i heard this guy we sent him a couple routers he didn't run his back do you know if you could maybe put in the good word for us um okay

We do have a guest today, Moshe Kasher, who is a comedian, and I first started to know his work from the famous and excellent podcast that he did with Neil Brennan called The Champs, which was, I mean, honestly, one of the first podcasts I think I really listened to. Legendary. Yeah, you can go back and listen if you want, but he's got a new book out, correct? I don't know what it's called. I believe it's called Subculture Vulture. That's right. It's called Subculture Vulture, and it's kind of broken down by subcultures, correct? Kind of like what he participated in and the themes of his life in an overarching way. Yeah, it's kind of one part memoir, one part just kind of... observations on how the internet has changed subcultures and now you know mass cultures like Taylor Swift fandom or being into sports or something like that have now become because of social media it's the same thing but they make it feel like it's a real subculture so it's kind of like a subculture simulation um it's very very kyle chayka type type stuff with with some comedy woven in um and all of his subcultures i'm trying to remember them but they're because i read the book but it was a while ago so i've i i plum forgotten most of it but um and most of them are couldn't be more relevant to my interests one of them being 90s rave culture uh one of them being comedy uh burning man uh growing up with a deaf parent okay so that one that one you can't relate to but the other ones make sense for you and also and i believe being jewish okay well you tried we were both a couple guys who are dj slash comedians and the few the proud so let's give them a jingle we're gonna get into all that and more

Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code, how long taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, sort of our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools.

So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional. as your competition, if not more. Head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. The hair does look good. Yeah, the hair does look good. It's on point, right? I mean, what's the point of doing that if your listeners aren't going to be able to see the quaff? Yeah, Chris. Chris, we need to create like a PDF document that has just a bullet point. with all that info that we can send to guys. Well, look, I mean, we're talking on air about how good your hair looks, so it's still the W. Yeah, and also you put the headphones behind the coif, which is something I need to work on. Oh, yeah, you think that was incidental or accidental in any way? No, I tucked it in in such a way to know that it wouldn't flood. Just so your listeners know, my hair, I have like... Kind of a cool, like a faux hawk. It's what I call a faux hawk. It's like not quite a mohawk. It's like a faux, like a fake mohawk. But you're saying cool. I get the alliteration now. You're saying cool. Yeah, it's like cool. I predict that it's a style that's going to really take off. Okay, so you heard it here first. The faux hawk is coming soon. Boots on the ground. Well, another thing I've been working on is... You know the phrase heterosexual? Sure. I've heard that, yeah. Well, but often heterosexuality has been trapped by these ideas of masculinity and being tough and stuff. So I'm working on a thing where heterosexual men, such as myself, can enjoy grooming products and fancy clothes, and we're calling ourselves metero, metero-sexual. Okay, so it's M-E-T-E-R-O. Okay, that's a little... You got a lot of new ideas, Moshe. This is pretty impressive.

Well, I was the guy that originally said the ocean is powerful. You have to respect it. And communism is a good idea in theory. Those are older ideas, and now I'm working on new stuff. No, I'm glad that you're kind of pushing forward. That's what we need. We need thought leaders like you to kind of keep this nation on track. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, yeah. So what's up, bro? How's it hanging? Oh, yeah, it's good. That's the start? Yeah, hell yeah. It's really good. Things are great. I want to ask you a question because it looks like you're in a restaurant that serves avocado toast, but this is your house, or is this an office? I would say that's an aggressive flex for a first question because it is my house. I do live here, and it's not just a house, guys, but it's actually a podcast. I don't know why I did that. I just did a visual move so that... So you guys could see the branding for my podcast. This is where you guys record your podcast. Yeah, this is our downstairs of our house. It's our basement. So you have two floors, three? How are we doing? I mean, we're doing pretty good. Well, we've sold a lot of avocado toast. I'll just say it like that. We're moving. We charge $2 for the poached egg. They're flying out the door. Here in New York, Chris and I had lunch yesterday, and they said there's an avocado shortage. and they were not allowing him to sub but i think over in cali the avos are flowing fine right now right well we make that's i mean this is avocado country you know yeah um it's terrifying here i'll be honest with you guys it's terrifying you walk outside uh carjackings There's like they take your house from you. There's housejackings now. So you become unhoused if you walk out on the streets in L.A. Everything about L.A. is and just California in general. Violent, violent hellscape. But the avocados are like straight up everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. That's the one kind of thing you can count on. To be clear, I do live in Los Angeles. I'm just I just happen to be in New York at the moment. Well, I was going to say. The idea that a house could have two floors being a shock is a very New York kind of sentiment, you know? I just think I haven't heard someone that's around my age talk about their basement in a while unless they live in a suburban area, kind of. You know what I mean? Like if it was your man cave and you lived in... If you're a St. Louis podcaster. Yeah, exactly. Hold on. Go back a bit. What did you say? My what cave?

Your man cave. Okay, I don't know if you just came up with that, but that's a fucking brilliant bit of branding. You should definitely go with that. There's something to that. You could get a brown leather couch and a keg mini fridge and a plasma TV. Darts. Yeah, definitely some darts. A humidor for my cigar. Darts are a little unisex, though, so I'm not loving that for the cave. Oh, you're saying, like, it's too egalitarian of a sport? Yes, exactly. Well, we can play a game that I like to call dip the dick, and it's a cornhole stand, but instead of throwing the cornhole in, you just... It's a bunch of guys, and you get in a line, and then you just dip the dick. And it's really fun, and the fellows like it. That's actually what Jason does at the Equinox in Glendale. It's a very similar game. It's a little different, yeah. It's an iteration of Dip the Dick, but it's less metrosexual. Yeah, it's leaning homo, if I do say so myself. If I do say so myself. Hold on. You converted your basement suite into a studio. Well, to be honest, we had the basement suite. I'm going to be really real with you guys because I feel like I can trust you at this point. Cards on the table. The basement decoration. And for those just listening, we have the walls are papered with palm fronds. I would say it's if you think hipster scum, but from about eight years ago, that's the kind of. That's the kind of decorative energy that we're giving. So we this used to be we moved into a house. The woman was 80 when we bought it from her and she had moved in when she was three. So everything in here was like extreme, like time capsule energy. And so we made like a screening room downstairs to watch movies and stuff. And then it was so nice, we thought.

that we turned it into our podcasting studio. Okay. So you're saying these are original furnishings? What I'm saying is we didn't do this because we thought it would be a quirky set. We did this because we live like this. Okay. This shit is every day, bro. This shit. You thought. You thought. Don't play with me. Not new to this. You thought you thought, but you didn't think. You had thought wrong. That's your problem right there. I mean, I'm clear on that. I mean, that's a dream and a goal of mine, 1,000%. Hopefully I'll be there one day, man. Well, do you know my wife at all? Yeah. I'm married to like the fanciest. It's not like this is me. I mean, this is like, Oh, I was very clear on that. It's not you that, that, okay. Yeah. I do like basic masculinity quality control when it comes to the design. Like I'm like, perhaps, perhaps not like a, uh, uh, an armoire from an Edwardian armoire. Perhaps that would make me feel a little bit, a little bit too emasculated. You put your little foot down when you need to. Yeah. I put my tiny little hoof down when I have to. Big dick swinging now. That's right. That's called dick dipping right there. So you choose your battles when it comes to decor. What about when you guys go out to eat? You making those choices, or are you kind of having to tag along? Well, I'm also a Jewish person, so I have other battles when it comes to going out to eat. Like when the check comes? I mean, yes. I didn't like that you got ahead of me on that joke. That felt like my joke to be able to make and not necessarily. Most people say I'll clean that up in post, but I'll dirty that up in post and make it yours. I'm going to sit on that in post. But yes, we went out to eat about two years ago, and she ordered the steak. Have you noticed that everything is like, I don't understand how people eat anymore. The steak was $80, and I go, it's Tuesday. This isn't our anniversary. Why are you getting... There's a burger. Like, why are you getting the steak? Is it you want a steak? Let's go to Sizzler. And she kind of checked me like I'm a grown woman and I don't need you to ever give any input on what menu items I order. And I kind of had to hear her on that a little bit. But but then later that night.

uh you know when she after she went to bed in the mirror i kind of i had a more serious talking to about like who i am and daddy's here and i make the i make the these choices yeah yeah yeah you you're the kind of guy who likes to order for his wife that's right she doesn't get to speak to the the service people yeah but i don't tell her that so i just kind of i come down to my man cave uh i'm gonna give you the copyright on that and i'll just kind of that's an affirmation for me you gave her a real lashing in the mirror to yourself that's right listen up Yeah, we were talking in the intro how we both are old fans of listening to the champs back in the day. Oh, thank you very much. I missed that. RIP. I said to Jason, and I think this might be true, I think that might be the first podcast I ever really listened to. Do you know what I mean? Like, really listened to? You know when they talk about, in hip-hop parlance, is it called fumbling the bag? Yes, yes, yes. I can't think... I can't think of a time that I fumbled the bag harder than when we walked away from that podcast. Really? We missed the sweet spot of podcasting by, I would say, two weeks. We decided to call it quit. You're the guy who drops out of high school in the fourth quarter. You're like, you know what? I can't finish this. I can't finish this. I just feel like if we had held on working together for a year, I would be... uh let's just say there'd be more than two stories to this house yeah yeah yeah sure sure i mean don't worry the bottom's falling out of podcasting now yeah but i would have liked to have been there during the time that they put the bottom on it yeah when they installed the bottom you could have he would have liked to have had the opportunity to sell before it dips i would have liked the opportunity to have done a special episode of my podcast where i talk about how my network ripped me off yeah that would have been nice yeah i can't wait to do that not to say that my podcast is not very successful the endless honeymoon podcast it is it's just the chance was we were right before the the tsunami and i feel like we would have been uh we would have been we could have been something kid did you but did you stop doing it for a reason or was it just like time had run its course you know uh we did a fatal blow i think we when we were starting that podcast we were like it would be funny if like

Neil Brennan obviously has written on a lot of black TV and was the Chappelle Show co-creator guy. And I have this history of when I was a kid being this little wannabe gangster, super wish I was black type of guy. And then we were both grown-up white men. We thought it would be funny to use our... I don't know what the even word is that won't get you in trouble, but to use our sort of culture, the culture adjacent ness to do a podcast where we interviewed black celebrities. That was that was the concept. Of course. And. I don't know if it's problematic or not, but more importantly, anytime you put a stricture on yourself for booking, I'm sure you know this. By year three of the booking process, you're pulling your fucking hair out going, why did we do this? Why didn't we just say anybody? But we've already established the premise so hard, it's hard to walk it back. So I think that was part of it. And part of it was that it ran its course. And part of it was that... I think Neil wanted to do ayahuasca. Yeah, no, sure, sure. You can't find yourself if you have to record every week. That's tough. That's kind of tough. You're kind of busy. I think that the, it's just, we talk about this a lot with, I don't, podcasts love to pigeon, like what you're talking about. Like, oh, we do this. Like, this is what we do. That's our thing. And I'm like. I feel the same way. Like, why would you do that? That really is going to fuck you up later because you're going to get sick of this shit. I think the problem is that people have an anxiety. I remember when we started the champs, I had a conversation with Dave Anthony from the dollar podcast. Do you know him? Do you know that podcast? Anyway, it doesn't matter. I know the podcast. Yeah. And I was like, oh, we're thinking about starting a podcast, but we feel like it's a little late. And so this was that was, I don't know, 10, 11 years ago. And we thought we were late to the game. And he said. Everyone on earth has a smartphone in their pocket. It is a Ponzi scheme with an unlimited amount of potential customers. And so when we started it, thinking we were late 11 years ago, we already were like, we should have a concept. And I think now people feel like the world is so saturated with concepts that they have to have a concept or it'll be boring. And then once you meet the reality of what that concept has handcuffed you for, you're like, damn, I wish we never had.

But it is too late. It's too late. No, you're living proof that it was too late. But I think people need a concept when they're just simply not really good at talking. And if you're really good, like you and Neil are, you never need a concept. You just go. You're just inherently funny and good at talking. You know what's funny about that, speaking of which, is I went to a live podcast recording recently. I don't want to... Oh, last night, but we don't know when this was recorded because I don't want to give away what podcast will I feel bad because it's my favorite podcast. It's funny. Our show was Friday at Webster Hall in New York. I didn't know you were there. It's my second favorite podcast. No, but this would actually speak to what happened to you guys Friday. Even though I wasn't there, I'm going to assume because it's not a comedy podcast. And I mean, you know what? Fuck it. I'll just say it. The podcast is called Is Ear Hustle, and I love it. It's like one of the most. like beautiful fuck it's a it's a podcast can you tell me i don't know what this is so can you tell me so it's ear hustle it was it's recorded in was begun inside of san quentin it's a it's a oh okay okay like an npr style journalist and then uh incarcerated people uh that will work as as the inside journalists and i love the podcast so much uh i listen to every episode super religiously and i went to their live show last night and don't get me wrong it was beautiful and it was good and there were emotional moments but i came away going oh my god Comedians are fucking gods. We are at such an insane advantage when it comes to this porting. from like a recorded medium to a live medium. Like people come to my live show for the Endless Honeymoon podcast or your live show, and they're going to be like, you're going to be off the cuff, unscripted, having a good time, and it's going to be this like more funny than the recorded, it's just going to be a whole different experience. You could feel, they did like a icebreaker game during this live podcast, literally, like a guy from another podcast came out and was like, we're going to do an office icebreaker. I was just like.

Oh, comedians, for all our warts, you never want to bet against a comedian in a live show. Yeah. I mean, just simply the thought of dead air happening while you're holding a microphone is just your brain can't handle it, I'm sure, right? And they were reading the script to this live podcast. And like I said, it was nice. It was a nice night. But it's like when I do a live podcast, nobody's nobody knows what's happening. Nobody knows what's about to occur. And it's and it is and it is as fun as fun as you can get in a life. I mean, it sounds like I'm bragging. I'm talking about comedy generally. It just made me realize what what a hard muscle comedy is. when it comes to live podcasts. We've learned that. We've had to learn that because I think we had to come to terms with the fact that that's actually what we were doing because that is what you're doing. If people aren't laughing and having fun, what's the point? You know what I mean? They don't come to us for information gathering. That's not, you know what I mean? Yeah, we had a real reckoning when I probably ate an edible and I was like... By golly, I'm doing live improv on stage every night. What in the world is happening? Is podcasting just improv, really, if you think about it? I mean, I don't know. I think the reason why we love doing a live podcast so much, where if you already have the built-in audience, they just are happy to see you up there being you and doing your thing. Nobody in the crowd is unaware of you. They're all obsessed with you, and they know everything you're going to say. You have to sort of cut your teeth in front of a room full of people who oftentimes don't know you. As just a stand-up, you're saying? As a stand-up, yeah. You're going over to Denver for three nights, and you'll have a lot of fans, but you'll also have some walk-ups, too. Well, that's kind of stanza one of headlining comedy. When you're a young comedian, all you want to do is headline, and you don't have a clue what you mean by that. You think you do, but you just go, I want to be a headliner.

And then you become a headliner and you realize, oh, I didn't want to be a headliner. I wanted to be famous. It's a whole different thing. I didn't want to come be the guy that people are disinterestedly looking at and going, so that's what a Jew looks like in Oklahoma City. You want to be the guy that people are like, ah, not you. I love you. And that takes a super long time. And that's, I don't know, in a way that's what podcasting has shortcutted. It's like now people can kind of find you. Thank the Lord. I think comedians. I feel like there's so many comedians that are so successful that most people haven't heard of, if that makes sense. You know what I mean? You're able to – you can do very well financially and not be famous is what it feels like to me. Well, I don't even know what fame is anymore. I feel like – is that a pretty profound idea? Like I feel like I used to have a beat on what it meant, and now it's like people that are – People that have been on a sitcom for like 10 years are like, damn, I'm struggling over here trying to get this mortgage paid. And then somebody who's like a teenager who made a funny face because they drank kombucha and it made them grimace are like making $50 million in licensing deals. Like nothing really makes sense anymore. My podcast producer literally was like, yeah, I'm starting a podcast with the girl that made a funny face because she drank kombucha. I'm just like, I don't even know what anything is anymore. That's... Well, you do. You just described what it's... That's exactly what it's like. They're letting you know because in three months you're going to get bumped because it's going to be full-time with that. Oh, a thousand percent. I don't have space anymore for you guys because kombucha lady, she's branching out in hop waters and into other various beverages. We're going to have to sunset. You knew this day was going to come. She's moving on. I mean, yeah, that's the reality. I mean, that's the TikTok universe that we live in. Well, we were talking in the intro, tying it into your book, which I actually read. Thank you for sending it over. But I read it. Oh, you read it? I read it. I asked my publicist today. I was like, what are the odds you think they will have read it? And he said, very low. So he thought.

So you guys, you've exceeded the expectations. Tell your publicist to suck my dick from the side. I will tell him. Tell Jacob to suck my dick from the back. Oh, you know his name. Okay. I deal with that motherfucker all the time, and I want to be very clear. I want to be very clear to you. That raggedy bitch PR motherfucker. I did not read the book. All right. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned

They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcast. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Okay, fair enough. So he had you pegged. Yeah, he had me pegged. But the downside is I read it two months ago, so I've forgotten most of the beats. But I will say that it was probably one of the fastest books that I finished in recent memory. Oh, that's really nice. Jason, are you saying that because it's written in such plain language that it's easy to digest? Or are you saying you loved it so much? The subject matter was... very close to me i am a person who hosts a comedy leaning podcast who was a professional dj and i also cut my teeth passing out flyers at raves in the late 90s so hell yeah there's a lot of through lines here well i think like in a weird way it does pour into what we were just talking oh i didn't want to get off before you told my publicist to suck your dick um this is going to come as a shock but he one of the main things he wanted out of this whole thing because this is we're recording this substantially before my book comes out and it's it doesn't feel like it's a part of a press junket for the book and i asked him i was like why so early he's like i'm not this isn't really about your book this is really about me getting in there and sucking some dick so like in like So you thinking that that's a flex to be like telling the segment, that's all he wants. That's literally all he wants, and that's why I'm here right now. So I've walked into his trap yet again. Yeah, you walked into his mouth yet again. And he will meet you at the Glendale Equinox any given Tuesday, my favorite movie. But I think it does tie into this idea of what is fame, what is culture. If my book has any kind of premise or any thesis statement,

Because what it is, it's a memoir, and it's my second memoir. Which I would like to say, it's two memoirs at whatever, you know, 43, I'm guessing. You know, I don't know, maybe younger. Yeah, that's about right. That's impressive, because books don't make any money, so I'm glad you're spending a lot of time on these memoirs. But also, the name of your first memoir, sorry to interrupt, may be the best name for a book ever. You might be thinking that it's a different book name. It's Casher in the Rye, and you might be thinking of Catcher in the Rye. which is a similarly titled book. And it was a weird coincidence that I found out about after I wrote my book. But Cashier in the Rye, the true tale of a white boy from Oakland who became a drug addict, criminal, mental patient, and then turned 16 is the full title of that bad boy. But it ends when I'm like 15, 16 years old. And I kept people I didn't want to write like a recovery memoir. It's really it's that story is like the story of my sort of wayward youth going in and out of rehab and getting arrested and going into mental institutions and all this stuff when I was like really young. And I didn't want to write like a, you know, how I got here, how I got better. I wanted to just it was sort of what they call an a like a war story. It was just the story of the insanity of my childhood. And I just kept I had people asking me again and again, like, what what happened next? How did you how did you get better? What was it that occurred? And I started thinking about writing that book. And I didn't want to do like you said, I mean, I'm not old enough to be like looking back fondly at the at the world that I've come from. But what I realized was like getting sober that young. I was 15 when I got sober and getting sober that young. I was like left with this question, like, what do I do now? I had this almost like blank, like living blank slate of still being young, wanting to be cool, want to be like other young people. But having this like really fundamental part of my identity taken away from me, which was like just getting fucked up and like being a wild, like want to be gangster guy. Like, what do I do next? And so I started like dipping my dick, for lack of a better term, into these other subcultures, into these other worlds. And that's sort of.

I thought, oh, if I could write a book about the different worlds that I've lived in, these different universes that I've inhabited, that would be that would be really fun. So it's actually like it's called Subculture Vulture. And it's like it's one part comedic history. It's like a comedy rundown of each of the six like sub universes that I've spent my life in. And then at a certain point, I enter the narrative of those universes and it becomes about my time in those worlds. And it does connect to our TikTok. What is fame? What is reality? Because. Having read it, I realized like your life at our age used to be about this like kind of accidental fumbling. Like you would just like. stumble into like if you if if a skateboarder at your middle school was like hey you want to hang out after school your life was just all of a sudden on this weird traject on this weird ramp yeah for sure and you're like you're gonna start writing graffiti you're gonna start smoking blunts you're gonna start listening to hip-hop or maybe you're gonna go the punk skater route you're gonna start going to punk shows or you know if you like reading tolkien and beetlejuice and then you saw some other person with weird eyeliner you'd be like who are you and then you'd like shut down this like path of you'd become the goth kid in your school. And because of the internet, that like random sort of pinball slap of where you're going to, your life is going to bring you is much more assembly line. It's much more streamlined. You're going to go down the internet path because there isn't really another path. Like there are variances within the path, but culture is brought to you rather than you going out to seek it. And so this is kind of, if it's anything, This book is like a love letter to that, kind of the randomness of the 80s and 90s and finding your people wherever they kind of live. Is that sincere enough? Hell yeah, that's my first time out doing that. It's funny because that's exactly what happened to me. I didn't go to any mental institutions yet, but I met my friend Jay when I was 12 years old and he had moved from somewhere else and he got me into...

punk and that was it that set the course for my entire life because we were in the same like math class you know and i think about that question a lot like i i brought that idea up in in the because the six worlds are um aa and like rehab world Hasidic Judaism and Judaism, which isn't, I wouldn't say a classic scene or subculture, but it is this very bizarre universe. Hey, it's a scene. It's a scene that I'm not welcoming. That's right. Well, not with that haircut anyway. We look at you as a natural enemy. Hasidic Judaism and Judaism was like a weird, there are two that aren't classically subcultures, which is Hasidic Judaism. and deafness and uh and sign language interpreting and those are more universes that i was kind of born into but they definitely set up the path that is my life so judaism um burning man the rave scene deafness and disability and then sign language and then stand-up comedy and um in the stand-up thing which is the last segment in the book It's the world that I make my living from. It's the world that gives me enough cultural cachet to be writing a book. It's the reason I'm on this podcast. It's not because of the lore of me as a rave promoter. Not exactly. For this one and only podcast. Because you and I are so connected in that way. I realized I was in college and I was... studying acting and playwriting and i was trying to like be a monologist at one point i was like i thought like i'd be like eric bogosian and spaulding gray like that would be my and then i took this random trip to new york uh on a summer vacation and chelsea peretti who's a old friend that i went to middle school with uh happened to be had started stand-up like a year earlier and was like oh i'm doing stand-up now you want to come watch this show and then i happen to like see that and go oh this is the synthesis of the of the acting and the writing I've been doing, and, oh, I'll do an open mic with you when you come to the Bay Area, and, oh, I got the bug there, and then, oh, I stuck around long enough to make a career out of it, and then I met my wife, and then I had a kid, and then I have this life. It's like, you look back, if I hadn't gone to New York that summer, like, if I hadn't been, if I had been busy that night when she was doing stand-up, and I was like, oh, you know, I'm taking in a Sondheim play to prepare for my life in the theater, like, if I had just been, if anything had gone differently.

I my whole life, my whole universe would have been different. I wouldn't be sitting in this basement. I wouldn't be talking to you. I wouldn't have this wallpaper. I would never have met my daughter. I wouldn't be I'd be married to another woman doing like social work in the Bay Area. Whatever is like that is the way life is like only and only can you like in hindsight can you ever look back and see a pattern. But but that's what this sort of book is about is about this like just like you like if you hadn't been in that that. that hallway that day when your punk rock friend said you want to hang out sometime you're just a different you're a different human right now and i think that's a really kind of i am fascinated with that journey do you think that happens less now because of social media and the internet and your life being served to you versus having to go out and find your life i mean organically i don't want to overstate i don't want to make it seem like everybody's life now is like a conveyor belt but i think that the that these random like like trap door openings into like another universe i think that that magic and i think it really is like magical i think it is uh lessened i think that definitely i think and you can see it in culture like culture uh and there's parts of this that are really positive but you can see it in culture like you can see people like rapping over techno, or Ed Sheeran will be playing guitar on a Nicki Minaj song, or a country music star will have sag their pants and be wearing a beanie, and a rapper will be doing a country track. There's part of that that's really cool and really awesome. It means that cultures have touched each other in the way that there used to be these segregated walls that you couldn't get past. I think that is actually really cool. But part of what's been lost, anytime you go forward, you lose something. What's been lost is these like these little like tunnels of subculture where things were really kind of you would really find this like universe that you didn't. I described it in the book as like, you know, like the classic story when you're a kid is like you're you're a weak.

orphan that nobody likes, you're Harry Potter, you're the Narnia kids, you're just this little loser. And then all of a sudden, something magic happens and someone comes and goes, actually, you've got superpowers. And you didn't know that, but your hero's journey is right this way, come through this door, and all of a sudden you're on this grand adventure. And that's what it was like to find your people, I feel like, growing up. step into a rave for the first time and you would just go, Oh my fucking God, I didn't know this universe existed. And like, I now am mighty and powerful and I will live in this universe. That's a, that's a universe I wish I never had heard of or seen, but I'm glad that you guys had your third eyes opened. Oh, sorry. Yeah. We, we weren't busy. Not, uh, not. showering and vomiting ourselves in punk clubs hey first of all first of all i i'm a big showerer and always have been okay i never wore a butt flap or a crash shirt or anything like that okay so don't don't do that don't do that yeah we were we both grew up straight edge so we were the clean punk contingency i suppose i had i have a fond memory of one time i made a grave grave error of taking uh taking a uh a trip from the bay area to la to i don't know why i was coming down but the only space in the truck was in the in the bed of the truck sandwiched between these two who they both are friends of mine that i grew up with but they were these two like i mean the worst kind of gutter punks possible and so i lay i was this like clean raver kid that like using like glitter lotion and stuff like that and these two had your mickey mouse gloves on dude straight up i was clean and sober The entire time I went to raves, and I had a pacifier. Pacifiers, you know, ravers suck on pacifiers because they don't want to grind their teeth into little rave nubs when they're on ecstasy, you know? So that was the functionality of the pacifier. But me, I was sober. So I had a pacifier only because I thought it was cool. Just for the vibes? Yeah, because it was cool looking. Aesthetic purposes. Just because it was cool. I was also, I too was going to raves when I was straight edge. So I was sober, and I was like,

I guess I'll hang out in the jungle room because at least I'm hearing some Wu-Tang remixes because Tiesto wasn't really in my playbook at that moment. Well, I think part of the sobriety that's interesting about the raves and the Burning Man and the other of these worlds, not to say that people that are high don't have a journalistic mind or memory. Thank you, thank you, thank you. But I was very... aware of my i was the only sober person in my particular little scene and so from a from a from a journalistic looking back memory perspective i feel like i collected memories in a kind of a different way in a less maybe in a less maybe in a sharper way uh i was able to collect the way that you're the only one who has a memory of that yeah right and i wasn't there were certain moments where i wasn't swept up in in like the in the in the fever and i was i was able to kind of observe it so i think that that is that what you is that what you call ecstasy swept up in the fever i call it disco fever that's right okay that's what you you didn't i mean i don't did you like the music uh you know there's an old um how dare first of all as a punk rock fan how dare you And did I like the music? There's an old joke in the rave scene that's really an old joke from the Grateful Dead scene, which is what did the raver say when he got sober? This music sucks. But I did not find that it sucked. I love the music. Not only did I love the music, but I do love the music so much so. that while I was writing the rave chapter, which was actually the first chapter that I wrote, and to call it a chapter is kind of a misnomer. They're more like little mini books. They're a true history of the entirety of the rave scene and then my time in it. But the whole time I was writing the rave section, I was listening to old mixtapes from the 90s. And at the end of it, I am 43, and I thought, this is a good time to have a midlife crisis. I don't want to cheat on my wife. And I don't need it. I don't need a drop top. So I thought, why don't I buy a DJ controller? And so I started DJing a pretty perfect time to start DJing techno and Afro house at 43 with a very antagonistic wife was definitely not in. She she came into my room where I was mixing the other day and she goes, are you DJing at me? Is this is it a.

Is it an assault? Is this on purpose to upset me? This feels personal. Well, because of your success podcasting and being a comedian, you now have a place for this music. You put your mixes up on your Patreon for your podcast, right? Yes, I have a captive audience that, well, not interested in music. Certainly, they can't stop me from sending them free mixes. Okay, so you're forcing people that are fans of your comedy and podcast to listen to your mixes of techno music. Yeah, have you ever heard of another podcaster comedian who's decided to make a sharp turn into making music? It's happened before. And it just happens that it's not always techno. It's usually like funky older guy rock. And now I'm just doing something different. Look, Tim Heidecker's a nice guy. I'm not going to let you attack him on this show. Okay, well, let me ask you this. So I used to be a DJ, and then I kind of stopped, and then I got into podcasting. And now that the podcast has grown in popularity, I'm getting booked for gigs again. Are listeners of your podcast sending over? avails for wedding sets private parties things like that are you being courted well let me ask you when you say gig because as you know that what kind of music do you play gay house and rap music together some not as much as i used to but yeah i mean those are those are my two strong suits jason played a party our after party the other night in new york and it i i would say that it's it's very good for any crowd but it's still cool somehow if that makes sense it makes total sense and it's difficult to do I will say that there are gigs and then there are gigs. I do not wish to play at a wedding for one of my Patreon people. I wish to play at a cool party. I want to be flown to Ibiza and nobody is coming through with that gig right now. So maybe if you guys do another event. Go ahead and send the invite over. I will be thrilled to do it. Moshe B2B? Okay, this is good. You and Jason back-to-back would be great for me. Nobody really wants to DJ a rave wedding for a podcast listener, but everyone's got a price, though, right, Moshe? 100%. You know, it's funny you say that. I was looking at Cameo today because George Santos went on to Cameo, and I was very curious what his rate was.

His profile has been pulled down. You know what? Hold on. That's unfair. I know how much he was offering. He was charging $200, which seems criminally low. How can we stifle our creator after we kicked him out of a job? He has no income. He's got to buy Hermes. His OnlyFans subscriptions are going to lapse unless we get him the money he deserves. You know who's a gay house fan if nobody else. is mr george santos we can guarantee that that's a good point he loves vocal house no but i i wanted to see who what people's rates were and i saw certain people it's there's a whole strategy certain people have made their rate um artificially high so they don't get bothered to do it a lot which is its own kind of flex and certain people have made it low and certain people have less than 20 bookings and that seemed like a really sad situation to be living with are you on are you on cameo I have resisted, but then I was looking today and I thought, what is the counter-argument? What are we, if not just shills for money, using our personalities in entertainment? It doesn't seem like a bad thing. Is it one of those things where it's like people that we would really not expect are the highest earners? I think irony is the stock in trade. I think the podcast host... is is the closest you'll get to a sincere like i think you guys could nail it but i think on the sincere tip but on the real money making tip it's always going to be like a quirky it's always going to be your feldmans and your santoses you're all you know that's what i want i want a hot they let oj do it or no i didn't see oj on there but i didn't look what i don't know what category he would be in there was sports uh Sports people, but there was no murderer. They didn't do a murderer one. That's literally what I was going to say. I'm like, there's no murderer category. To be honest, murderer would clean up if there was a murderer category. Bro, if I could get the Menendez brothers to do a little shout-out for Jason's birthday, oh, baby. There is a – not to bring it back to my book, but there is a punk rock anecdote. I want to say two things about punk and raves since you talk so much shit. First of all, do you know that Johnny Rotten –

did an early techno track. Did you know this? Before Sex Pistols or during the pill? Post Sex Pistols. And what was the other band he was in? Public Image? Public Image Limited. Pill. Public Image Limited. Before that. I think it was before that. But anyway, in the beginning, it's a song called Open Up by Leftfield. And this early rave days track. And it's John Lydon singing. just say wailing and the punk rock and raves had more in common than they either of the groups would wish to admit in the early days because they were both like this anti-establishment like fuck the fuck the man kind of thing i know i know many of i mean not just jason i know several people who have have dipped their their dicks in both of the waters you know but i i just don't It just always, it just didn't seem cool to me. That's all. It's like, you know, that's it. It's just a different, whatever appeals to you. I think that's what I love about it is you give in to the uncoolness about it, usually with the hate of drugs, but it's a very freeing thing to make a fool of yourself. Yeah, that's true. I think, you know, punk has this ethic of like toughness and raves have this ethic of softness. But they're both kind of trying to get you to the same place, which is like detaching from broader society and saying, fuck everything. We're going to go so far in this direction of foolishness. Because to be honest, if you go far into the punk aesthetic, it's a little bit ridiculous. And similarly in the raves. But here's the real anecdote from the book. This has nothing to do with raves and nothing to do with the crossover. This is from the AA segment. I was once in an AA meeting in Hollywood. Uh, and a member, I don't even know who, I couldn't tell you who it was, but it was somebody from the, the, the sex pistols was the speaker. And he, Steve Jones, Steve Jones, for sure. I don't know. He was fucking, was he a, was he a big guy? He had, I think glasses on. I'm really not supposed to give you any, I'm not doing a thing. No, I know. He's, he's famously a sober guy. Yeah. He talks about punk rock legend in the meeting, talking about texting during meetings, fucking neck.

Veins bulging, turning red, going, you don't, it's fucking AA! Show some respect, mate! You don't text her in the goddamn meeting! And it was the most un-punk rock sentiment I had ever heard. I was like dying laughing, like... This is the least punk thing I have ever heard in my life is an old man wagging his finger at young people for texting through AA meetings. This is good. You got Karen by the Sex Pistols. This is good because I wonder now is texting – because people are definitely texting in church. You know what I mean? I'm sure they're texting in AA all the time. That's the name of my next memoir actually, texting in church. That's good. That's a freebie. People are sports betting in church nowadays. There's no more rules left. Actually, speaking of – Steve Jones and raving from the nineties. I have a good story. One time I DJed a party for the Chelsea football club and Steve Jones was there. It was like five people in the Chelsea football club. Steve Jones is one of the five people. And I hung out with him because he was cool. And it was me DJing opening for Paul Lokenfold in a private house in the Hollywood Hills. And I took a selfie with Paul Oakenfold where we're the same height and I was sitting on my knees. And I look really bad in it, otherwise I'd be sharing it. Paul Oakenfold's an OG, by the way. He's an interesting guy that was around pre-rave in the earliest days of like just when disco was reformulated. And I want to pose to you that the fact that you think raving is lame, it betrays a subconscious homophobia. that you don't even know that you have. First of all, Moshe, I'm the gayest guy on this Zoom right now, so don't fucking do that. I didn't hear you... supplicating my PR guy for a blowjob. You had your opportunity to prove yourself. I know we just met, but the fact that you can't tell them the gayest guy on this Zoom is crazy. You see my wallpaper. The fact that you could even deign to say you're gayer than me on this Zoom is really disrespectful. That's actually a good point. It takes a gayer man to judge your wallpaper than to install it. You know what I mean? There is nothing gayer than letting your wife pick the wallpaper. That's true. That's true, fellas.

But I'm not going to say raves aren't lame because I obviously identify that they are in a way. I understand where you're coming from with that analysis. But in the early, early days of disco, disco was becoming really popular and everybody's listening to it. Saturday Night Fever started to take over disco. And all of a sudden, there started to be this backlash. which was people getting angry that this kind of gay, black music form was sort of starting to take over the airwaves of young listeners. This is in the 70s. Disco sucks. Disco sucks. Exactly. So they did this morning radio DJ, which is, if nothing else, what podcasters are is morning radio DJs. That's my dream. That's my dream. We all dream. I want to be the man cow of the podcasting world. Actually, do you know anybody over at K-Rock? Jason and I are kind of looking to take over. Yeah. We're the new Kevin and Bean. You can see it. Podcasters get paid a lot more money than Kevin and Bean do nowadays, unfortunately. Yeah, that's so interesting that basically being a radio... DJ, but without any FCC interference and without any real quality control has completely taken over the genre. No, you guys are wrong. Kevin and Bean are making a lot more money than we realize because they're legacy and that's not the only reason. If you went in as a new radio, like I'm doing overnights. You're making minimum wage. It does sound like a fun way to make minimum wage, though. Oh, yeah. I'm doing the 12 drive time. Think of the camaraderie with your crew. Oh, man. Just living in the eye of a quiet storm. Think about that. I can't even afford my one bedroom in Culver. Dare to dream. Dude, I was just that. I just took my daughter to Medieval Times last week, speaking of Dare to Dream. And I was expecting to go there ironically. I think like everybody that goes to Medieval Times, I went there ironically and I left sincerely. And the performers at Medieval Times are not weird nerds. They are extreme artists. I mean, they are so good. They're leaping doing triple, quadruple somersaults off of show horses. They're pro wrestlers. What are they making? I'm trying to get to the bottom of this. And are they happy? They're definitely not happy. Do you think it's like the wrestler style of lifestyle where they got to like...

They've got to chew their Klonopins and chase it down with a bottle of Jack every night kind of thing. Yeah, definitely. For minimum wage. But there's no upstream to a better life with... medieval times right well this is it's this this is very similar to like people who play characters at disney it's like you're an actor or an actor you whatever but it didn't really pan out no but it's different it's different because at disney you go you're in a cinderella costume you wave okay you can wave i could fucking wave i could be cinderella right now i got the look these people are not just some random person these are like equestrian magicians who are doing full strength swings of a steel broadsword with sparks flying off of it. They had to study. So they're in a different category of expertise. They had to study. They went the way of the blade. They know they did. So it's one of our last great selfless hobbies and passions because, I mean, there's no way they're making more money than somebody who's like... An assistant manager at In-N-Out, right? Well, I would like to get to the bottom of it. I paid $100. I sat in the cheap seats. I made a mistake. And in fact, I sat in the cheap seats because I Googled, is it worth it to get the VIP upgrade package? And everybody said no. But then I realized, who is it that's chiming in on this? Broke people. Broke people. So I should have sprung because I looked down at the real nobility down on the floor. Moshe, you work too hard. to be with the general population. You're damn right. And let me kind of lift you up right now. You're above going to Buena Park if I can keep it a buck with you. Just the entire community. I shouldn't be even seen in the community. So I'm sitting in the nosebleed at medieval times and my daughter, and they do this thing that all these family things do, which is they do like a multiple upsell. tours. They'll come by with a flag. You want a flag? And then you've got to look at your daughter and go, no flag. And then they come by with glowing things. You've got to look at your daughter and go, no glowing things. So they come by with a glowing thing, and I say, okay, how much? And they're like, $11. I go, okay, honey, I'll get you this glowing flower. And I reach into my pocket, and I realize that I don't have my wallet. It's in the car. I don't have my credit card.

And I go, oh, I'm sorry, I don't have my credit card. Do you take Venmo? And the person's like, no, of course not, my lord. And then the family next to us puts a hand on my shoulder and goes, it's okay, we've got it. We know how it is. We have daughters too. And I go, no, no, I got money. Can I Venmo you? And they're like, no. And they've already done the transaction. And then they offered us cake. They offered us the cake upgrade because they had gotten cake for the birthday party. And I'm like, I'm trying to explain, like, I'm thrifty. Like, this is a thrift thing. I Googled it. I'm jealous of the video. But anyway, they were very nice, even though I do think they thought I was like a poor single dad that was like, you know, trying to do something special for my daughter. You should have leaned into it. You should have really leaned into it and played the character of single dad down on his luck. Yeah. Do you have any employment opportunities lined up at all? Things are not going well. So you said you're in construction. I don't know if there's anything that you need help with. Well, I will say this. It was so touching. Because the news cycle, I don't know if you've been reading the news cycle lately, but everything feels so unfathomably toxic that you start to like full, full lose faith in humanity, that it was so touching that this random family in Buena Park was just like offering me cake and buying my daughter a glowing flower. It like actually it really was an emotional experience that like renewed in a very small way some of my faith in humanity. Paying it forward. It is quite beautiful. And if that happened to me, I would probably be overcome with emotion. And then I would... Maybe show them a screenshot of my business checking or something just to flex on them or something. That's clearly a screenshot from a different phone. I left my wallet in the car. Let me pull out my car key, and it's just a nice Range Rover, like a big Range Rover key. You know, you could have. There's so many ways. Well, I turned to him, actually, and I go. you know the champs podcast you know what fumbling the bag is like there was a moment where this could have gone in a very different i could have owned this medieval times and they're like oh yeah i love blocks what a great pod wow oh you're you were with blocks guy oh i love he killed it um and i'll actually speaking of of them good old days on the pod

I would be remiss to not bring up maybe my favorite moment of yours, your Stephen Hawking impression. Oh, racist Stephen Hawking, a classic. Racist Stephen Hawking. I'm not saying you should do it. I haven't done Stephen Hawking in a long time. Okay, but he could. He would say something like, he would say something like, Grace, when you said raves were lame, I agree with you. Because I, too, do not like any form of music that has African-American roots. Something like that? He would do something like that. Punk rock. Punk rock. Punk rock is our thing, brother. Have you... You know who I like in the punk world is Screwdriver. They speak to the reality of that they're trying to replace us. Kind of a thing. Still got it. Still got it, baby. Still got it. For all these years. That is a cool image of Stephen Hawking at a screwdriver concert, but as a major fan. Yeah, like he's in the front, and they're kind of protecting him. He's right up front. He's right up front. Getting knocked over by the mosh pit. He can handle it. I think he can handle it. Resilience. Speaking of... of maybe different cultures that are not loved by the masses, you did a pretty good job. I'm always really curious to hear, like, smart people who go to Burning Man, not necessarily defend it, but, like, explain... If you want to say raves are lame. I mean, Burning Man doesn't just make people roll their eyes. It makes them like spit on the floor like a curse. Like they fucking hate it. And I get it. I really get it. It's like like the deepest, like when when things got flooded this year, like it was like I'd never seen schadenfreude on that level. Like people were like fucking apoplectic with like they were just like.

The glee that they were experiencing that anything theoretically could have been going wrong for us up there was really helpful. It got to the point where the celebrations were too loud and people started to be like, there are people dying. There are people dying. Like, I know you guys think this is funny, but there are people dying. I think that, you know, Burning Man is really interesting because it's interesting on its face, but it's also interesting in that it. more than any of the scenes I wrote about is a creature from a different time. And I think that's why people hate it so hard is because this idea of like going to the desert for nothing more than like to experience an extreme version of reality and then set fire to like a, you know, a small unhoused village worth of fresh, perfectly good lumber as like, it's nothing, but I just need to be. free to do this is so antithetical to, like, the currents that are happening in society today. Like, it's so irresponsible. It's so unacceptable and unjustifiable that it's like... And it's so Gen X. Wildly Gen X. It's almost kind of turned right-wing conservative in a lot of ways. It's like a capitalist explosion when it started out as the antithesis of that. And it's like, I would say even further, it's like this libertarian kind of like libertarian lost boys. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Don't tread on me. I'm not going to. Not on the playa, not here. Not in my name. I wanted to know, because it is this event of a bygone era that is having a little bit of a tougher time nowadays, is there hope? Is there a way? If the Burning Man Congress hit you up and they're like, Moshe, how do we save? How do we fix? How do we turn this train around? What would you do to fix Burning Man and bring it back to its original?

You know, ethics and roots and everything. Nothing. It's it's it's the cycle of things. It doesn't have nothing. It's it's it is doomed to become obsolete and lame. It just is. It's like. But then do we put a bullet in it and kill it or do we let it. Well, I mean, I think like I think people's rage around burning rage is maybe the wrong word, but just they're like extreme antipathy towards it is also an extremely kind of immature reaction to people. Just having a good time and trying to like, listen, life is like so filled with a meaningless feeling of like emptiness and ennui that like for people to do anything that makes them feel alive, regardless if it's like super lame. And this whole carbon argument is like hogwash. It's like bullshit. You know what it reminds me? Because that's a current argument is like. how can you justify your carbon footprint? It's like, oh, are you not shopping at Target or are you not taking commercial air travel while you send the tweet that demonizes people for going to Burning Man? It reminds me a lot of... foie gras and i will explain like foie gras to me the bans on foie gras that took place in uh certain things i think washington and san francisco were nothing but people attempting to uh assuage their own guilt about participating in the horrors of factory farming and meat consumption period that they go this this meat This meat is the bad meat. This meat here is the, all I do, I eat the animal that they send a bolt into its brain, skin it while still alive sometimes, slice it into things, and then it gets sent to my air wand. But this meat, this is bad meat. Like, I don't find, everything is a climate fucking nightmare, and I don't find one climate nightmare versus another to be particularly actionable. How else is Diplo going to get there?

You know what I mean? He's got to fly private. Okay, so if everyone's main complaint is now that it's been taken over by the tech yuppie billionaires who have ruined it and it's no longer about the original aspects of it, what if you instated a guest list where people just have to submit? And then you have to be interviewed. Yeah, it's like Soho House. Nothing says post-apocalyptic utopia more than the policies of Soho House. Take a page out of Soho's book. I mean, unfortunately, I would say like a Berghain-style door policy, but I think it does need to be something deeper, like a real actual interview with somebody to develop. It's not based on looks. It's not based on money. It's like, are you a good person with a good soul? Do you have lots of money still? Come on. Okay, well, I will say in the book I make the argument, and I think it's true, that tech didn't infiltrate Burning Man and ruined it. Tech has been at Burning Man since the early 90s, and it has been a steady feature of that culture. What happened is not that tech made Burning Man lame. It's that tech got lame, and they were just there. And then they had all this money that they were able to affect their kind of lame awfulness onto the culture of Burning Man. Tech used to be like as much a subculture as anything else. It used to be this counterculture, weird group of people that were like trying to change the world. And then they became billionaires and billionaires are not who you want. Kind of like molding the culture at the top of your of your kind of. counterculture or sub-world. So that's part of the problem. So if you're asking me, if I could take over Burning Man and I have an unlimited budget to make it try to become cool again, I think it's sort of not possible. I think it jumped the shark a long time ago and we're watching it slowly ember out. It's still, by the way...

as cool like the coolest party i think that i could recommend it is really fun and anybody that's listening and okay all right moshe thanks for joining us it's been great i'm just saying it's been listen every time somebody tells me how lame burning man i've been going since 1996 i used to work there i've been going since i was 16 years old i've seen it from what it was the wild shit where people were literally dying all the way until what it is now which is a very sanitized very kind of like glittery version of what it once was. And I still think it's about as much fun as a person can have on any given week. Anytime someone tells me that Burning Man is like lame or sucks, I always say the same thing. I go, oh, you've been and you didn't like it. I've never, no one's ever been like, yes, I've been and I didn't like it. Listen, I'm sure someone has been and didn't like it, but the demographic of people that hate it, I would say is a solid circle of people that have never been and just think it kind of sucks. Totally. Totally. All right. That's it. Oh, wait, that really is all the time we have. Well, I was joking, but it's also all the time we have. It's also all the time we have. No, but honestly, it's been a real pleasure. And thank you for taking the time. And the book is out next year. The book comes out January 30th. It's available for pre-order right now. And I'm doing like a weird event for people that pre-order where I get, because there's six subcultures. I do. I'm getting six moderators to do like an online event for people that can't make it to meet me on book tour. And we've got a lot of really exciting people for Jews. We have Alex Edelman from the Just For Us, the Broadway show. Max Greenfield is doing the recovery portion. Atsuko is doing stand up comedy. It's going to be just a lot of fun. And I would love for people to preorder and get that shit. Also, I'm doing a bunch of stand up so people can find me on. They know where to find you. I have the book as well if anyone wants to buy mine. You could do an audio book. You have the podcasting equipment. Just read the book. You said it went quickly. You'll get a taste of it. Don't worry, brother man. He'll get some Spotify style royalties. If I could make a suggestion and maybe you do the audio book while my publicist sucks your dick the whole time, that could be a cool concept audio book. It's going to be a goon sesh. My voice will become more timid with every page.

Jesus Christ, that's a disgusting thought. Thank you, Moshe. A lot of throat clearing. Yeah, Moshe, thank you so much. We're both really huge fans, and we appreciate you taking the time. A pleasure talking to you, man. We'll see you soon, bro. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Appreciate it.