547. - Del Water Gap

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? A terrible, terrible day in Manhattan. I've been up since 5 a.m. kind of traversing this drizzly, piss-stained burrow. Jason, how are you feeling? Well, I feel like you were always up at 5 a.m., right? Yeah, today felt a little earlier after a little travel day yesterday. You know what I mean? You're feeling a little rough and ready when you deplane Delta Airlines. But I did witness something yesterday I've never witnessed before after all my years of flying, Jason. Okay, really? Okay. Something new, a new experience for me, which at my big age is tough to come by. I saw... someone removed from the flight i've seen that before what happened i love your tone of voice wait um those uh those sky marshals the grip is kind of strong well this is what's fun this is what's funny it so it was like a it was a woman an older woman um the flight was delayed i don't know an hour and a half probably because of just like issues at la guardia because of weather and she was irate and then was like i need to talk to the captain you know walked over the front of the captain's like yeah what's up bitch and she's kind of like she's kind of like going off and he's like yeah i mean i don't know what to tell you like air traffic control isn't gonna let us fly so sit down basically and she's like no you don't get it captain i really want to fly instead of sitting in the airport and so i think we should take off but what happened that was the most interesting thing to me is i saw all of these delta employees in red

kind of vests circling you know and i heard i was waiting what kind of employees are we talking about cleaning crew no no a little bit more a little more meat on the bone more meat on security security dad not security but also not like a a mid-level employee with responsibilities is the vibe okay and they are circling they're like in a little huddle meeting and the the flight attendants are like oh oh hell no they called the redcoats And I was like, wait a second. Do you guys actually call these Delta employees the Redcoats? And they were like, yeah, that's what we call them. That's like the official name. It's just a beautiful coincidence. That's what we call them. I was just like, is it World War I? Like, what are we talking about? So, I mean, so I witnessed it. It was kind of anticlimactic. But, of course, there was a guy next to me. wearing some like off-brand streetwear and a couple chains who was able to video the whole thing like he was a 15 year old i mean you never know that could have been 75 quid from daily mail right there if she goes irate that's no that's a really good i mean that's on the resale market that's half of a new hoodie for him that says ain't nobody fucking with my click spelled with a cq ue No, you're right. You're right. When I think about the math, it makes a lot more sense. I'm sorry. I was thinking too practically. Otherwise, zeros and ones, it doesn't make sense. You put a nice hoodie on that, it starts making a lot more sense. No, you put a nice hoodie on it, everything comes together. Okay, so this female identifying delay victim was peacefully... Delay victim. Peacefully... asked to leave and she obliged without kicking and screaming and cursing anyone yeah i think i think it was a little bit like yeah i think she knew she'd fucked up you know what i mean a little bit what did she do to cross the line and call the redcoats if she was just saying like hey can we take off and the captain's like nah i think she was like very well have a good day sir i think there was some stuff happening back at her seat that i wasn't witness to like her like

saying like like just like demanding that her bag would fit and they're like we can't close this ma'am she's like nah fuck that like i think i think she was also talking aggressively to other passengers which you know okay she had a bad day she was having a bad day we all had a bad day we're at hartsfield jackson international airport It's always a bad day at Hartsfield-Jackson, but I made it back. I like that we were both at Southern Airports yesterday. Yeah, how does it feel getting back from Houston? You told me you met some friends at the airport as well, not just TSA. It turns out Beyonce has a lot of fans, and many of them are hanging around Houston, her hometown. I was going to say. You hear all these stories about everybody traveling across the world. From state to state to go see Taylor and Beyonce and all that stuff. And you're like, yeah, it's fine. I believe it. But when you're in a little bit of a smaller town, Houston's like a mid-sized American city. But I'm not joking when I say half of the people in the airport, you know, the entire airport. Yes, the totality. Restaurants, TSA, walking around the terminals, bathrooms, massage chairs, Tito's, tacos, cantina. Half the people were wearing Beyonce t-shirts or silver cowboy hats, or they had some sort of tell that they had just exited, you know, a tell far bag, something like that. A gay best friend who's like really tall and skinny. And it was a it was a kind of a fun vibe because it was like it felt like a mixer or like a convention. It was like a Beyonce convention because, you know, the Houston airport resembles a convention center. It does. And I'm I Beyonce fans seem pretty high, high spirited, let's say. So I feel like the vibe was up versus versus like a come down. No, it's different. It was the vibe was was chill because like. If it was overrun by Taylor Swift fans, Swifties they call them, there's going to be a high-pitched squeal happening all over from terminal to terminal, screaming and yelling. God forbid a Taylor song comes on at the CPK ASAP. I was in the Tito's Vodka Saloon. Sure, sure.

And literally like a throwback. They were playing throwback music like the Macarena and Alien Ant Farm and all that shit. They played Destiny's Child song. And not a single person, half the bar was filled with Beyonce fans. Nobody looked up at each other. Nobody danced. Nobody screamed. And all I was thinking about was that video, like the fake video where Taylor comes on at some brunch by some stinky ass bitches and they act like their water just broke. Yes. But everyone was just chilling because Beyonce fans are a little bit older. Yeah, that's true. That's true. They're there to have fun and turn up and party. So they're all hungover. They're wearing their juicy couture sweats. They got the big sunglasses on. Hair-tied, chilling, with no makeup on. Hair-tied, chilling, with no makeup on. Some of them not in a wheelchair, but not in a wheelchair. You know what I'm saying? They're having a hard time. They were kind of immobile is what you're saying. They're having a hard time. Let's say the average age. For, like, the Beyonce fan is, you know, upper 20s, lower, you know, like 33 years old or something like that, you know? Beyonce is, like, my age. But the average Taylor Swift fan, 16. We need to talk about Taylor. She's had a big weekend because we didn't, we weren't, we weren't, we podcasted before she appeared in the Chiefs. you know, VIP box to support her new man, Travis Kelsey. Damn. I can't believe I lived long enough for like people to want to hang out at a Kansas city chiefs game where that was like, it's crazy. A cool, awesome thing to do. So I, she, she was there, she was wearing the color. She was wearing a cursed pair of new balance, five fifties in the, in the chiefs red and white. Um, and there's this amazing video of, she's such a fucking pro. It's, it's honestly, it's, it's aspirational. There's a video of her where you can, when after Kelsey scores a touchdown, where you can clearly see her mouthing let's fucking go and like throwing her hands up in the air which of course um has now has now got the swifties have kind of mobilized remember like a few weeks ago when i was talking about the wedding and i was i was talking about how taken aback i was when a clearly gay person said let's let's fucking go to me yes people aren't allowed to talk like that that's our shit

Hold on. Are you having a similar feeling? Same thing for Taylor Swift. Yeah, yeah. One five-second occurrence on the internet, nobody can ever say that anymore, especially in earnest. Definitely not in earnest. I mean, the Swifties, though, have mobilized, and now they're posting a video. of a chief's practice where Travis, Travis Kelsey like punches his teammate. And they're like, he's violent. I'm like, guys, he's a foot. Of course he's violent. He's a football player, but somebody on Twitter. We found him folks. We found the first violent football player. Yeah. He's got CTE guys. He's not working with a full deck. So the, so the, but the biggest thing for me, so after watching quarterbacks, the fantastic Netflix show that kind of track Kelsey's in that, you can't quit that show because he's my homes like guy, but my homes has this. kind of turnt up white wife who is kind of the center of attention over there in Chiefs Land. Oh, I like where this is going. I bet she is on fucking suicide watch. Oh, my God. Taylor Swift came into her house and ate her motherfucking lunch. Crazy. She doesn't even have a team. No, it's over. Like, she might as well pack it up. She needs to find a new husband, honestly. Like, that's how bad it is. Damn, could you imagine? That's so funny. You think one day life is good. You're the king of the world. I mean, I guess you're the king of Kansas City. You're one of the most in-demand hoes in Kansas City. And then who comes a-knocking on your door? How do you compete with that? Tay-Tay, there's nothing you can do. Throw in the towel. This relationship with Travis Kelsey is going to last a month. So I guess it's okay, but the damage might already be done. What that does to the ego when the cameras take the focus off of you, even for one Sunday, even for one red zone, it's bad for business. And I'm worried about Mahomes' mental health as well because he's going to have to deal with her. It's a game week. You know what I mean? It's going to be tough. Yeah, he's a tight end, right? Travis Kelsey's a tight end, yes. Imagine you're the quarterback. One day, tight end takes your shit. Tight end says, look at me. Tight end pulls up and says, look at me. And everyone's like, gladly. Yeah, please, God. I will gladly look at you, Decatur Dan, looking motherfucker. Travis Kelsey do be looking like Decatur Dan. He had a reality dating show, and now all of his exes are coming out, and none of them are white.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that Taylor – everybody's doing this for the right reason. He's doing it for fame. She's doing it for like a Middle America reset from the Matty Healy incident. She said, I tried the little rockers. I tried the little party guys, and now I need an athlete that wears – that carries a Goyard dop kit into the locker room. That's what she needs to kind of reset. I think she must have something brewing. Maybe it's her concert film going to theaters. And nothing says Middle America more than a Taylor Swift concert in theaters. I mean, she doesn't need to have anything else brewing. Like, there's every Le Crusade in the world. is on the burner and it's bubbling just fine for her there's no no that's we're we're cooking the reservation no no that's true make you want to i want to res no res no i agree with you on that i agree with you on that of course but i know that she is so calculated and such a monster that there's no way that she doesn't have something kind of slated yeah you know i guess that i mean everyone says you sort of you know the the pendulum dating where you, like, you know, I do this, and then next thing you know, you go in the opposite direction and blah, blah. And he, I mean, I guess, I saw somebody tweeting, like, I saw a picture or a photo of Travis showing up to practice back in the day, and he had, like, a paper plate with aluminum foil on it. And I was like, that's how I knew he was dating a black girl. But, you know. You date enough black girls, and then you end up dating the whitest girl that's ever been born, Taylor Swift. It's just the pendulum swings. I don't think he'd be busting down Taylor unless she was extremely famous. Like, if she was just a CW actress, I don't even think he would have looked her way. I think everybody knows what the deal is, and I love that. That's what I love about her. I mean, I've never met her, obviously, and I don't know anything about her, but she has to have some sort of... And, you know, animal magnetism. Are you saying that Taylor Swift has gorilla grip? Is that what you're saying? Jason, we do have a guest today. Friend of the show, Holden Jaffe. You might know him as Del Water Gap. He's got a new record coming out. I miss you already, and I haven't left yet. Actually, damn, it comes out Friday. We're really timing this right. He's doing the pod circuit right now.

He's one of the first How Long Gone guests whose name sounds like a skate spot. I'm excited to chat with him. That's true. Let's do it. Let's give him a jingle. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking... Something put together, a cabinet. Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf. TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And, I mean, how it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture. repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a Tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because Taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs, handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world, is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code. how long taskers book up faster, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code how long with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from the Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned.

They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Where are you? I thought, were you in Seattle last night? I was in Seattle last night, and I took the cursed Alaska Airlines 11.40 p.m. red eye to New York City. How are you feeling? I actually feel surprisingly great. I was in a yellow cab by [redacted address] to my 90-year-old grandma's apartment. Is that where you live, or is that where you're just going to visit? Oh, no, no, no. So I'm just in New York for the day. For 24 hours. Okay, okay, okay. So when I'm in New York City, I stay with my 98-year-old grandma. She's got this apartment, you know, in Park Ave that she moved into in 1955. So she's been holding it down. She's been holding it down in the park since it was in the hundreds. She pays less for a four-bedroom on Park Ave than I paid for my apartment in Greenpoint, my two-bedroom when I lived here. You said a four-bedroom on Park Avenue? Yeah. Are they bedrooms for humans or for pets or are you talking about full size for bedroom? Oh, we're talking about full size. I mean, she lives by herself. Bless her heart at 98 lives by herself. I'd be doing a lot of Nana time right now as well, my friend. You know what I'm saying? She knows where it's at, man. No, it's a good vibe. And I don't know. I couldn't really. stomach the the rent control handoff you have to live there for three years but oh you do oh i didn't know what the rule was what's what's the rule he's like i've been doing a lot of research lately actually there are oh i did a lot of research to jump through you have to be a direct relative so you have to be child or grandchild or niece okay you have to live there for three years pretty much uninterrupted so you can't leave for more than like

two weeks how do they how do they track this is there like a rent control fed what about burning i go to burning man every year is that how's that gonna affect it that should be okay she'll actually go with you if you take my grandma with you it's so it's funny because like you're you're explaining this whole procedure and i'm listening to it just like as a joke it's funny But there's probably a lot of people who listen to this podcast right now who are diligently taking notes. This actually affects me very deeply right now. A lot of people who work in media, mostly. Yeah, I mean, I think that there are plenty of coastal folks that listen to How Long Gone who probably have a grandma. Yes, yes. I like coastal folks. On the Upper East Side or the Upper West Side of New York City, they go to Zaybars. You know, they have been known to stroll the halls of the Metropolitan Opera. Sure, sure. I watch only murders in the building. If I'm explaining your grandma, this is for you. Okay, you have to live there for three years. You have to live there for three years. And I actually talked to a lawyer about this because I was really looking into getting this apartment. I really thought that it would be a good thing for me to have. I bet you the fuck were. So the lawyer told me. Does Nana know that you were talking to a lawyer about this? No. Does Nana know what a podcast is? There's a lot that Nana doesn't know. There's a lot that goes on. Nana's like, I tried to listen to Zane Lowe, but it was paywalled, so I didn't bother. Literally, that just happened. It's this Vogue article, and I tried to send it to her, and she asked me for my Vogue login. I was like, Grandma. Damn. Can you imagine Nana asking you for the Vogue login? Damn, when grandson's too popping, I got to get a subscription. That's so cool. $12 a month. So what do you have to do besides live there? What else is it? Because I'm very interested. Okay, three years. So here's the issue. Here's the issue. This is what this lawyer told me. And I'm not speaking directly to my grandmother's building owner or landlord because we didn't get this far. But apparently, if they know that you're going through the motions of trying to...

inherit the rent control, they will pretty seriously try to catch you, you know, and sort of corn you and make sure you don't get it. Because obviously, you know, if this apartment loses its rent control, they can charge four or five times what they're charging right now. Easily. So apparently they really do make sure that you're there a lot of the time. So you're telling me they don't like it when you pay pennies to live in a four-bedroom apartment? So they see your little ass prancing through the hallways and they're like, Come here and talk to me for a second. Yeah, and I stick out in that building. I mean, you know. Yeah, you think? I mean, this is partially your fault, Chris, but, you know, I walk out of that apartment, you know, in a Tom Brown skirt, and the doormen are like, Like, bro, nah. Excuse me? They're like, we saw you in diapers. Why are you putting diapers back on? What the hell? Yeah, literally. What do you think you're doing? Do you have a relationship? Now, do you know the doorman since you were like a kid? Oh, yeah. It's crazy because they saw me grow up, but I saw them grow up. Some of these guys I remember when they were 16, 18, just starting out there. And they would play with me as a kid. And I grew up in a really rural town in northern Connecticut called Sharon. And there was not much to do there, so I would take the Metro North into New York City when I was a young teen. I was like 14 and 15, and I would go to these bars that would serve kids, and we would get drunk. I would go to the kids' bars. Yeah, no, the kids' bars. The kids' bars, you know. New York was a different time. What were these kids' bars, by the way? What neighborhood are the kids' bars? I mean, I'm assuming these have been shut down since then, so I'm hoping I'm not going to get anyone arrested. But there was a place called Amber. And it was some sushi restaurant. And I remember you'd come in and it was a normal restaurant, but you'd walk in and you'd be 15 and they'd say, oh, come into the back room. And they'd take you into the back room and it would just be a room full of children. You know, it looked like Chuck E. Cheese, but everybody was everybody's drinking Hennessy. It's not even, you know, it was like it was like it was like.

pineapple martinis you know it was like very right this is something this is something that only happens in new york just to be clear maybe maybe la i remember when the guy happens in la and i mean it anywhere that there's rich kids with and their parents are at work this shit goes down oh yeah totally you know and it was like it was yeah i mean i i fell in you know once i grew up in the in the country but i fell in with this crew of kids that were like at st bernard's and spence and you know in So I ended up in this in this crew somehow and, you know, got got sort of my version of like a semester abroad experience as a. As a wealthy New York City kid, that was not a wealthy New York City kid, you know. You were gossip girling. I was gossip girling. You know, I was smoking parliaments. I was, you know, doing that whole thing. All the cool stuff. I slipped into this little alternate reality and quickly dissipated. But, you know, that was my. But, anyway, what I was saying is, speaking of the doormen, like, I really bonded with these guys because, you know, I was, like, 15 and I would come home at, like, 4 in the morning, like, drunk. And they would, you know, sort of help me. sneak back in you know they would help me oh that's nice that's nice and you didn't even have to you weren't even old enough to give him a christmas bonus no i wasn't but i would tell grandma you know because she every year you know she She would write down every name and then their bonus next to it, you know. And, of course, you know, she's 98, so it's like $12. And it's a check. You know, she's giving them a check for $12. Yeah, a $12 check. And I'd be like, I really like that guy. You know, you should tip him. Oh, I see. You would point them out but not give anything away. No, no. I wouldn't say. That's smart. I wouldn't say. Tony had a great Q3. I think we might need to bump him up to 17, 18. He really performed. I looked at the sheet. He really performed. He killed it at Thanksgiving. I mean, he was there the first time I tried Four Locos. I'll never forget it, man. That's a big moment in every man's life. Oh, I will never forget it. I drank two Four Locos with my high school crush, and the next thing I remember is just seeing, like, a puddle of green in between my feet on the L train.

And that was the last thing I remember. And then I woke up in the apartment. So one of them helped me. One of them did something. I got these guys. These guys might have saved your life. Holden, this is this is like a long, a long relationship. Yeah, no, totally. I mean, shout out to them. I've never had I've never had a doorman in New York. And part of the reason is financial, financial. Yeah, financial. Podcasting isn't isn't doing that well yet. You know what I mean? It's not the music business. We're trying. But the Webster Hall. Okay. Webster Hall, December 2nd. Tickets still on sale. Tickets on sale. Get those where you get tickets. That's right, baby. Yeah, but I always – I find the – like you have to talk to them when you come home unless you're a dickhead. You know what I mean? I'm so chatty that I feel like it would really hold me up because I would be building with these guys every time I walked in the door. Right. Well, I hear you, but also – I think that you are specifically talented, Chris. You have a very specific talent of being able to talk to someone, make them feel taken care of, and move on very quickly. Thank you. Without seeming like you're exiting the situation. The amount of times I've seen you for like 30 seconds at an event. But I'm like, oh, I saw Chris. It wasn't like, oh, we just had a moment. You're good at this work. We've got to get this guy a job at the Carlisle. He sounds perfect. I know, I know. Hospitality. Sir, which room are you in? Let me help you with your bag. Yeah, it'd be my pleasure. No, I think that kind of thing comes with partly sobriety because there's no distractions. and part because I've got to be in bed by 10, so we've got to wrap this up kind of thing. So no matter how many people you've got to talk to, you've got to wrap it up quick. It's presidential style. I hear you, and I don't know if we've talked about it, but I'm a sober guy who goes to events. Are you? Oh, I didn't realize you were sober, actually. I agree with you that it completely changed the quality of my times out. Yeah.

on the scene, you know? Sure, sure. When you're a little bit more in control and you're a little bit more, I just find it maybe much more confident, you know? Yeah, no, totally. Well, did that change? Really? Yeah, usually it's the opposite. Alcohol is the only thing that makes me confident. See, but it's a trap because I thought that was the case until, and I would never, you know, push the bride in anyone, but for me personally, you know, it really... really really really made me more confident when i stopped drinking at events i thought that it was giving me courage you know yeah yeah that's well that's a comment did you did it change the way you approach like performing did you need oh my god yeah i mean i had never played a sober show until after covid i got i got sober during the beginning of the pandemic and yeah i had never ever ever played a sober show not a single one yes Was it nerve-wracking or was it empowering? Like, what was the vibe? And you haven't had a fun time playing live since COVID, have you? Yeah, you're like, this touring stuff really sucks. I've been wanting to put out the whole time. Yeah, no. So my first show back out of COVID was actually at Red Rocks, which was crazy. I never thought I'd play a show again. And I went into COVID. I had a big... Career reassessment in COVID, as we all did, you know, as many of us did. Yeah, Jason and I both did. We started a podcast, so we really had a career reassessment. Yeah, a real reassessment. But yeah, no, I mean, a couple months into the pandemic, I started calling friends and being like, you know, I think it's time for my next move. You know, music was not happening for me, and I had been through a couple really unfortunate. Record deal situation. You mean like the music wasn't coming to you or it wasn't clicking career-wise? It was the business career-wise. I mean, you know, I have been at Dollar Gap for a minute. I started it when I went to college. And I had made a lot of records that I was really proud of. But it just wasn't affording me the life that I wanted. You know, I was just struggling all the time. Spotify said, nah. Spotify said, nah. They're like, nah, dog.

It's cool, but no. But yeah, so I was like, you know, tell me it's my next move. And then, of course, as soon as I started looking elsewhere, the music or stuff started lifting as it does, you know. Oh, so you're saying you were going to go, you were going to finally chase your dreams of being a barista type vibe? Dude, I was fully looking into becoming a CPA. What? CPA? Yeah, dude. Yeah. Did your grandmother suggest this? Yeah, who suggested this? No, my parents actually, my parents sat me down and I had like a printed brochure. And they said, they said, you know, you seem really unhappy. You know, we would pay for you to become a CPA if that's something you'd want to do. And I think I was like mentally ill enough at the time. I was like, you know what, fuck it. I was like, I'm probably the only guy that's ever said. fuck it in the same sentence as CPA, but I did. And I said, fuck it, I'm going to be a CPA. Wow, that is something that, again, I think my exposure is clouding my vision, but it's such a, it couldn't be more different than what you're doing. You know what I mean? As far as like, what's required. But when I look at it in retrospect, I was still looking at it through my poetic New York indie boy lens, which was this. Sort of Einsteinian fantasy, right? I like this. Go on. You twisted. You were like, I'm going to be the first hot CPA. I'm going to figure this out. I'm going to be super mysterious. I'm going to sit in the corner. I'm going to be scheming the whole time. I'm writing my book. They don't know. Okay. But I'm writing my book. You had a full fantasy created. You were ready to rock. Oh, yeah. I didn't know it, but, you know. I need my account to be really scheming. You know what I mean? Exactly. That's what I'm looking for. It's like, I can deliver this to a publicist, and they would slam it out of the park, you know? Yeah, I love the idea of you sitting on, like, a high-rise somewhere in Midtown, wearing full, like, Saint Laurent at your computer, with two monitors and all your Excel spreadsheets open, like my dad. really like this idea it would have probably it probably would affected your overall look but this is a good it's a good solid now did this chair go in your office or no okay well then we can't do that one exactly so you were how close were you like what are we talking about yeah did you sign up for class classes no i hadn't signed up for class where i was at was i called a few friends and i had been like yo

I've been really unhappy for a while, and it was not a mystery to anyone. I had made some records that I fucking loved, I still love. I mean, this record, Don't Get Dark, I put it out on this cool indie label, and, you know, it got to people, more people in retrospect than I realized, but, you know, I was working, like, four jobs. I was catering, I was... Setting up photo booths, you know, fancy 4,000-a-party photo booths and making sure people didn't break them. And I was doing tech support for old ladies. I was literally Photoshopping for my grandma's friends and setting up their Wi-Fi. Such a nice boy. Yeah, damn, this is so sick. And then I would rent this studio 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. from this guy Justin Garish. um who's a great mixer and he yeah so i had the studio overnight so i'd go in at 6 p.m and work all night basically and sleep during the day and then go to a job and it was just not for my mental health and then amidst that i was drinking a lot and i had a little bit of a benzo problem which definitely did not help and i was watching breaking bad yeah worst of all i was binging breaking bad yeah that benzos are great but that's tough stuff it was like klonopin and breaking bad and you know and And, like, those, you know, those, like, BBQ wing-flavored pretzel pieces, the Snyder's? Sure, sure. It was that vibe. So you were living a nice, healthy lifestyle. Yeah, so that was the vibe. And then COVID started, and I had this wonderful opportunity to check in with myself and got sober. And then this career stuff started happening online. I had one foot out the door. And then one thing after another, my new manager. called me and said, hey, you have this opportunity to open for someone at Red Rocks. So my first show back after the pandemic was playing for 7,000 people at Red Rocks. And it was my first sober show. And it was the first time I ever cried on stage. And it was a version of maybe something you felt, Chris, where, like, you know, being sober gave me this ability to turn the knob up on some of my emotions. Like, I felt...

emotional in a way again like moved in a way again that i hadn't in a while i'm dead inside and i would agree with you yeah that that is that's that's absolutely true because you just don't have anywhere to hide you know what i mean yeah yeah it's a different situation but i can't i mean i'm sure it's overwhelming to do that in front of that many people, and it'd go well. I mean, that's obviously an insane adrenaline kind of... What exactly made you cry when you were playing at Red Rocks? Just overwhelmed in general, or was there a specific moment or a song that made you crack? That's a good question. It was a combination of things. I think the overwhelming feeling was just that I had literally decided that I was never going to play a show again. I was done playing music, and I was okay with it, and I had accepted it. It was like seeing a loved one come back from the dead. It was a version of that for me. You know, music had been my whole life. It had been the only thing that I really cared about, you know, even to a detriment. I mean, I really sacrificed friendships and romantic relationships to become a great artist and to become a great writer and to become a great producer. And I had really come to terms with the fact of kissing that part of my identity, my life goodbye. standing on stage at that particular venue which i don't know if you guys have been there but it's you know it's like a cathedral it's one of the most i'm really upset i've never been there and i'm gonna make the pilgrimage at some point oh you'll go you'll go it's just it really is in the middle of nowhere you know so you really gotta want it yeah it's wild and and it was also it was i think it was their first show back since the pandemic so it was there was this collective grief in this collective euphoria of just everyone it was probably the first time that most of those people had been in a group of that many people in two years so yeah really palpable you know like security guards were crying it was really it was really emotional it was a really emotional everyone at live nation was crying it was a beautiful yeah yeah amazing thing if live if live nation's crying then something you really killed it you really killed it who are you opening for at that show i was opening for mount joy oh yeah

Damn, they headline Red Rocks? Yeah, baby. They're big. They're big. You said Mount Joy. Mount Joy, yeah. They're sneaky really big. And some of the nicest people I've played shows with. I've learned about so many sneaky big bands. Dude, we are in an era of sneaky big artists. It's crazy. Yeah. I mean, I think it's just like the way streaming works and the way that you can like just find your people or they find you and you just kind of stay in your corner and build it. But, like, every time, like, when I talk to Dylan, every time Rebounder's going on a tour, I'm always like, who? And then I go look at it, and I'm like, what the fuck? How is this? Why do they have so many streams? Like, who is this? Dude, I mean, it's wild, yeah. We're truly in an era of niche, you know, these niche cultures really dominating. Yeah. It's good for me. Yeah, you hear about, like, what's that band, like, Cigarettes After Sex? Oh, they're huge. Oh, yeah. In Columbia, we do 100,000. Who told us that, Jason? Somebody told us that, like, in a country that I haven't even thought about, Cigarettes After Sex does like 50,000 tickets, for real. And we were both like, what? It's absurd. What? Yeah. Like, I've never even thought about that band. But it's amazing. I mean, I feel like it allows for more people to have careers, which is a positive. Completely. I think it's a really good thing. Yeah. Did you read about, Chris just sent me a link to it, but Live Nation just announced that they're going to stop taking a cut of merch sales and then start giving travel budgets to... to their touring artists that they booked. That's crazy. I did not know that. That's at certain venues, but surprising to be fair. I did see. I did see this. It's some weird sort of partnership with Willie Nelson, which I don't fully understand how that plays in. But yeah, it is. There's some fine print, maybe? Yeah, there's some fine print there. Willie doesn't even know what merch is. No, Willie's getting a kickback on this somehow. Yeah, our merch just goes straight to Willie. All of a sudden. Wait a second. Gladly. I think that the thing is, the interesting thing is that their stock price had dipped on Monday.

And they announced this on Tuesday. I don't think that is, I don't think you get this plan together that quickly, but they must have known something was happening, you know, because the uprising, well, people had been, I mean, you know, there's been a lot of, of chat, at least on a pretty small level. Like, I don't know if live nations like dialed in with Tom Berlin, but like, you know, people like making a stink about it. And it is, I mean, it's unfair. It's weird. It's weird. And it's always been weird. And people have always known that it's been weird. And for some reason it has only become, I guess public knowledge in the last six months to a year, I think people are talking about it more. Yeah, you're right. Nobody really cared about it, I guess. They knew it existed, but it's like, yeah, these millionaires don't make a little less money. Who the fuck cares? But now it's kind of interesting, I guess. No, I mean, seeing it firsthand, it's pretty shocking how old-fashioned it feels to be. Opening for an artist on a tour, you're losing money every night. You're selling $400 in merch, and you're writing a check for 20% of that $400. The math don't work out, bro. Yeah, but the exposure is amazing. Great exposure. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable. And they're just easy but, you know, still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. You know, they focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada.

That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web. So do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world. writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional. as your competition, if not more. Head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. I was just talking to my manager about this. The fact that this industry continues to be built on the backs of people that are willing to work for free or to pay to work, basically, for the promise of a seat at the table. And I say this to someone who did this, who did this for years, and I still do versions of this. It's just a funny part of the entertainment world. Unfortunately, I kind of like it because it makes it – it just makes the barrier of entry a little higher. I agree. And I think the barrier of entry is so low in most things in our world today. Even with the streaming thing, I could –

Jason could record me singing a song right now. We could have it on Spotify tomorrow. Like, that shouldn't be that easy. It shouldn't be that easy. Like, the world doesn't need that. But that's where we're at, and it's this democratic approach, which I think has, like, obviously lots of positives, but I think it has an equal amount of negatives when you really look at it. Yeah, I think you're right. People say the door swings both ways, but the gate... swings both ways too i guess yeah the gate the gate swings both ways no it really does it really right you're right there's truly no buried entry yeah because i went to recording school i learned how to you know i learned how to make a record on a you know two hundred thousand dollar neve mixing console sure sure and they you know and they told us you know you really need this to make a record and then You don't need this to make a record. Yeah, but this reminds me of all my friends who are photographers that were assistants and really know how to do it and can light the whole room and do the whole thing versus the guy that got popping from Instagram and shows up with a camera. You definitely don't need it. We had Glaive on the podcast. And he was great, but he was like, I don't know, man. I started making music during COVID. It's like he literally just uses a computer that he had that he probably played video games on. It's like I'm impressed by that, and it's cool. It's very modern. He wouldn't want to go to a studio even if it was free and offered to him. He's like, what am I going to do there? He's like, why would I do that? I need my laptop and a little Focusrite box that I got on Amazon for $200. And I sit on my couch. do whatever I want. I don't have to, like, go to a gate buzzer in Sherman Oaks and some random guy ask me if I want water. Hey, is anybody making a run to canes? Because, like, I'm pretty hungry. I don't know. But those skills come in handy. Oh, yeah, for sure. No, and I think I was more making a comment on, you know, buried entry. But there's obviously no one way to get into this art form. I am constantly really grateful that I had that background. I actually had a great experience at that school. You didn't go to Full Sail, did you? No, I went to... I was like, damn, bro, you got scammed. No, dude, I got scammed by NYU. Okay, I knew you went to NYU. I went to Clyde Davis, which is actually where I met Chenfeld. He was there for a full two and a half weeks. Did you finish NYU?

Yeah, I finished. I finished. Tim, you really are a good boy, Holden. You really are. I'm a good boy. Yeah, no, I finished, and I took all that expensive education and went right into doing Photoshop for old ladies. Sure, sure. You really turned it around. You really put it to you. The thing that it gave me was perspective, really, I think, to the point of all this, is just realizing that there is no one way to do it. I'm so happy I have that background. I made most of my records. you know 75 percent to the 75 percent point by myself and i was able to do that before i would involve other people which i'm really grateful for and i think i think that's allowed me to to build a really uh personal feeling around my music you know it feels like a real extension of me for sure i mean and it's also allowed me to you know reap the benefits of working with with other people now you know i've been able to start really working with with producers from the ground up more recently, and I'm realizing the gift of that. But is it more collaborative because you actually know what they're talking about? Totally. It's just having the slack, I think, is really helpful. I did this record with this guy, Sammy, and I really struggled early on with Sammy because he was the guy at the computer, and he was the guy playing a lot of the instruments, and I was doing a lot of the writing, and that was really disturbing for me because... The way that I knew how to make Delwater Gap and make my songs was to make all of it by myself. Yeah. And so I almost felt like I was making writing songs for a different artist. And and he was really sensitive to it. And he basically said, fine, like, take the record. He gave me a hard drive and he said, go home for two weeks and work on it and come back. And I got about 48 hours into working on it alone. I came crawling back and I was like, I'm good, dude. I don't want to be alone. You're like, bro, honestly, I'm not as good as base as I thought I was. So if you don't mind, if you don't mind. Babe, I fucked up. Babe, I fucked up. Yeah, but like the point is like knowing that I could approach it was enough. Yeah, that's, you know. Yeah, that's honestly, that can be enough. Yeah, knowing that you can do it is half the battle sometimes.

That's really funny. It's like parenthood. You see parents tricking their kids into thinking they have the element of choice. Hey, we can do this, or we can do this. There's really no choice. Jason does that to me, actually. It's funny you say that. I do that a lot. I'm used to that. He does that in his personal life as well. What's an example? Maybe I'm going to be a great parent. No, he doesn't do that. Jason's a great co-host and friend. He would never do something like that. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I consider it to be a teachable moment where it's like, I'm leading you to the water. I can't force you to drink, but I could force you to learn a lesson and have a little aha moment, I guess, maybe. Well, I mean, giving somebody a choice, but kind of knowing what the answer is going to be is what you're... That's called propaganda? That's called propaganda, yeah. If you give two options and one's clearly the good one and one's the bad one, then that's a different equation. It works on five-year-olds and Chris Black, so why should I stop? Yeah, I mean, why not? If it's working, it's working. So this record, this shit comes out on Friday. This shit comes out soon. So you're in full. I've been seeing your ass everywhere. You're in full-time mode. Yeah, you did the Zane Lowe episode. You did the Zane Lowe podcast, whatever, Apple thingy. I tried to listen to it, but it was behind a paywall. So could you tell us all the stuff that you guys talked about, please? Yeah, this podcast is free. Zane's a listener of this show. He's a friend. Zane's the homie. But yeah, I mean, did he do the Zane Lowe get deep with you? Yeah, I mean, you know, I've met him in passing over the years, and I've always been really struck by his presence. He's currently a very... He's a singular guy. He's an enthralling chap, isn't he? He's one of my favorite interviewers, and I spent a lot of the last few years watching his interviews with musicians I really admire, so having the opportunity to talk to him was definitely a big...

you know top five bucket list moment for me personally did you go to did you go to the apple did you go to like the la or did you do it online no i just i did it on i did it on facetime i was hoping i was going to see one of those pictures of him in one of his outfits and you you know you're standing together like him and pharrell you guys are having a necklace off who has a cooler necklace on yes i love that yeah no no it was you know it was it was in a way but anticlimactic for that reason has a lot of a lot of career moments end up feeling because you know i was just sort of sitting in in an office in my house and then i got a facetime and it was zane low you know and it was it yeah it's just funny that sometimes that's how it goes it's like oh zane low's facetiming me and then um and then it's over 30 minutes later you're done he asks really good questions and he's very interested in process in a way that a lot of interviewers are not like he really we talked a lot about ethan gruska who is one of the most gifted musicians in the entire world, I believe, you know, at least in the pop world, you know, pop indie. How would people listening at home who aren't familiar with his work know him from? But he's a Phoebe Bridgers guy, right? So, yeah, and I believe that he really came into his own as a producer when he started producing with Phoebe. So he and Tony Berg and a few, you know, Harrison and Marshall and I think that whole squad makes music with Phoebe and they made the first Phoebe album and have worked on her music since. And I found him... through through those circles and i actually just dm'd him when i was starting to make my album and i said you know i'd love to work together and um it was i was actually another he said what's what's the budget bro what's the budget let me know what's the budget you're not even you know and that's i think that is you know music aside that's one of the things that i loved about working with ethan so much is he's like the least la industry guy you know and i i always knew he was a good guy but you just you never know when when someone is as good and as well respected as

That's how we all feel about Jack Antonov, right? Exactly. You just never know. In the scheme of things with guys like this, if you're really going to do it with them, you're going to have to spend a lot of time together. Oh, totally. It's a lot. It's a big commitment. That's what you realize with anything. With record production in particular, that's... in a lot of ways more important than the actual music making is just does someone allow you to feel calm and open and confident and can they get out of the way enough for you to do your thing but can they contribute no totally i mean we talked to we've talked to so many of those guys on the show and in in life yeah and they all have like a certain personality you know that's kind of like yeah there's obviously quirks and different things but like overall there is kind of like a a fairly genuine like warmth i think that allows people to like open up and do their thing which is is what the gift is it's like you don't have to be the best guitar player you know i mean there's a real mystical quality to to you know a lot of these guys you know someone's made girls anyone you people that that we're alluding to and are you are do you live in la now yeah i live in oh you do oh highland part grudgingly yeah yeah well so i i I left my apartment during COVID in Greenpoint and I'd signed my record deal. So I was going to work on my album out in LA and I was bouncing around, you know, doing sublets and Ubering for three months. And eventually I bought a car sort of by accident and then I owned a car. So I said, I guess I live in LA. And then I got a real apartment and then I toured for basically three years. So I have this apartment that is basically a storage locker and I've spent maybe four weeks in collectively. I spend as much time in New York. I'm here all the time just for work and family. How's the car doing, though? What kind of Kia did we get? It's a poor man's Tesla. So it's a Mazda. What is that? A Prius? It's a gray Mazda CX-5. I didn't know those are electric. No, it's not electric. I call it a poor man's Tesla because if you squint, it looks like a Tesla. Oh, okay. It's just in body style. It's giving Tesla. In body shape.

It's a Tesla. Okay. Maybe a poor man's Lexus, you know. It's a great car. It's a Canal Street Tesla. Yeah, exactly. No, I tear it up. You know, I tear it up on the hills in Echo Park. You're jumping it on that hill in Echo Park every Friday night? Have you seen that video? Great video. Of course. One of the best videos, honestly. I mean, a friend of mine lives on Baxter Street, like on that block there. We've all known somebody who lives on Baxter Street, if you know what I'm saying. Jason's like, I've driven home late night from back. Ever get some hill dick? Oh, baby. It's different. That's different. I'm trying to make my way back east. LA's been great for work, but it feels... You're a Park Avenue girl through and through at the end of the day, right? Yeah, you're a Park Avenue shorty, and that's just what you got to be. You don't need to be meddling over in Highland Park. What are you going to do? Go to home state? Yeah, literally. I go to Black Cat, which is basically New York. No, and it's funny because I was thinking about moving back to New York. I was really pondering it and starting to talk to people about it. And I was out walking on the Upper West Side. I don't know what I was doing. And I run into none other than Eli Zabar on the street, the man himself. As I live and breathe, Eli Zabar. And I stopped him. You think that's a sign from God? No, I literally stopped him. And I was like, dude, I'm such a big fan. And he was such a sweetie. He wouldn't take a photo with me. Really? It's so cool to stop a guy on the street and be like, I'm such a fan of your deli. I'm a big fan of your work with cheeses. What you've done with cheeses is amazing. I mean, just the whole catalog. The whole catalog. Would you sign my tote bag? I wanted, yeah. Oh, my God. What would you have him sign? I feel like it would have to be like a bagel. How old is he? He must be. I mean, I feel like he's a listener, so I don't want to insult him. He's probably in his 80s, I think, or late 70s. Okay. But his fit. Oh, my God, his fit. He was wearing these baggy, thigh-length khaki shorts, but they were almost capris. Yeah. Okay. You know, a Brooks Brothers button-down and white Crocs with gibbets on them. Oh, hell no. The gibbets were a glass of red wine and a baguette.

Damn, so this is kind of a Mario Batali fit. Yeah, it is, actually. But the Crocs were white. No, and this is what I noticed first. I noticed his fit first. It's like, who is this guy? He's got these really striking eyes, and then I connected the dots. Yeah, I want to know how you were able, because, I mean, I know who that is, but I wouldn't be able to pick him out in a lineup. I don't know if he's... Chris, could you recognize him just from appearance? Oh, no, no, definitely not. No, definitely not. I want to make sure it's very clear that Holden's a freak for knowing who he was. We just want to make that clear that you are a freak for knowing who that was. But that's cool to stop your favorite deli owner and tell him that you love his work. I like it. I respect it. Imagine if I was at the airport and I ran into Dean or DeLuca. I would shit myself. I'd lose my mind. Right, because when you spend time in L.A. and New York and you... there's a real there's a real sort of unspoken you know you don't you don't bother a celebrity right even if you're a big fan you really don't even if you know it's one thing if someone introduces you maybe you say hey i love your work but you know i personally really try not to go up to people in the middle of their life and say something but this is one of those situations where i was like i get one or two a year and eli zabar was one of them that's that honestly i like it i i had one recently i told jason about with uh Chris Robinson from the Black Crows. Oh, sick. I couldn't help myself because he looked so insane. And it was just like, I can't believe it. I'm sure he appreciates it. And I think Eli appreciated it too. I think there's a certain. Yeah, for sure. Hit him with a head. Big fan. Love what you do. Keep it moving. Take it easy. Have a great one. Keep it moving. Done and done. My other one this year was Zach Wild from Pantera. Where did you see him? Zach Wilde, who has the Les Paul that has the bullseye artwork on it? Exactly. Zach Wilde is spelled non-traditionally, correct? I think it's W-I...

W-Y-L-E-D? W-Y-L-E-D, yes, for sure. So I was next to him on a flight and he had a Pantera jacket, and he's lost a bunch of weight. So I was like, I feel like that's Zach Wilder. Really quick, Zach is spelled Z-A-K-K. K-K. Oh, wow, wow. So I made the mistake of asking him, are you in Pantera? I knew that it was Zach Wilder, but I was feeling shy, so I didn't just say, hey, I love you, whatever. Sure, sure, sure. Are you in Pantera? And he sort of grunted at me. He looked at me and sort of grunted. To be a fly on the wall, because I've hung out with you and I've met you. I've seen Zach Wilde. He looks like the Undertaker. He's a giant, buff, bearded, gnarly-ass man. Okay, so he's much slimmer now, which is why I didn't recognize him. He's really skinny. So Zach Wilde is snatched? Yeah, he's really skinny now. And he looks great. you know but he wasn't where i remembered because my first concert ever actually i was 12 years old i saw rob zombie and ozzy i was born at msg zach wild was playing guitar so that was zach wild in my head was just like oh because he famously played guitar for yes for ozzy i think and rob zombie yeah i think but famously for ozzy yeah i think he you know okay so yeah i i and i said wait are you zach wild and he said yeah buddy so then i was like all right We're good. And then we were at baggage claim together, and we were both flying to do a festival. And so I had my guitar. Oh, here we go. And I was like, I have to get Zach Wilde to sign my guitar. I have to. Like, this will only bring the value of this guitar up, right? Sure. You said this Epiphone hollow body. Zach's like, that's what everyone thinks, but they're wrong. We need to get the money up on this Epiphone hollow body. Let's see what Zach can do. So he was there waiting for his bag, and I was running around trying to see if anyone had a Sharpie. It was one of these moments where it just didn't happen. The Sharpie did not appear. I said, you know, it's just not meant to be. So Zach Wilde did not sign my guitar, but I had to say hi to him, which was really cool. That'd be really funny if you had a Zach Wilde signed guitar. That's really funny. Really, like a big flex, right? I feel like if you ask him to sign a guitar, he has to say yes. It's like part of the contract as a shredder. Totally. He can't say no. He took the Axeman's oath is what happens. Actually, I Googled Zach Wilde and I visited, there's an article on muscleandfitness.com, fine magazine, but it...

it talks about his weight loss journey. There you go. I wasn't wrong. Yeah. He stopped eating sugar, dairy, potatoes, and bread and lost like 30 pounds in three months. Yeah. Every, after every show, he hits a Denny's and he orders a 12 egg omelet. Oh, he's a, no, no cheese, no anything. It's just a, just a dozen eggs scrambled and then goes to bed. That sounds great. This is the information I wish I had. If I had gone to that interaction saying, yeah, I'm a huge fan of Denny's. Can you sign my guitar? I love eggs. I love eggs. Zach, Zach, from one egg lover to another. Yeah, yeah. Bro, you love eggs. I love eggs. Like, let's talk. You know what I mean? We have some stuff to discuss. Let's form an unlikely bond, Zach Wild. Exactly. That's pretty good, though. I don't know if I would. I think I would. I've only really freaked out about Elton John. Wow. You met Elton John? Yeah, years and years ago because my first boss was, like, pretty good friends with him. like normal setting which is even kind of more weird you know what i mean because it's like yeah the kiss or anything i didn't have to but i think it would have been accepted you know what i mean if right it was on the table you worked in music right were you were you a manager yeah i was in music yeah yeah yeah but that's not why that's not why i met elton john actually this was from working at a retail store a clothing store in atlanta because elton lives in atlanta so okay he's like around that kind of um but yeah he always likes he always liked for meals to be you know there's a couple 21 year olds around that's not no harm no foul you know what i mean yeah and at one point i was a 21 year old so that was great hired gun he's the coolest i mean he's like one of the I've I've seen him a few times and it's pretty crazy because it really is some like America's Songbook type shit where it's just like every single song. And it's also he's one of those guys that I love because even the biggest. like republican anti-gay marriage they just can't help but love elton they just he gets a pass from everyone he's been grandfathered in he really has he's been grandfathered in it's amazing it's like it's it's great to see it i'm glad that happened to him of all people the last time i i hung out with you was at that ysl party uh yeah a few months ago yeah and i remember they had one of those like weird celebrity

star-studded dinners in the back with, like, white lotus people and everything. How often do you get invited to those weirdo celeb dinners like that? Well, I've been to quite a few of the St. Laurent dinners, but the thing that I have, you know, after two or three of these things, the things that I've started to realize that at first hurt my feelings and since then has become just kind of funny and, of course, you know, is that, you know, I... Sex is implied. Let me preface this by saying, let me preface this by saying I have only had great experiences with St. Laurent and any of the people in fashion I've worked with. You look great. You look great. You look great in those fucking clothes. Cause you know, I can't see Jason, Jason, I can't squeeze into that shit. You know what I mean? I need more than the YSL. I need a N, a Q, a R, and a P. The whole alphabet to get my leg in. Well, to your credit, Jason, I think you were the tallest person at the YSL party, which. Says a lot, you know. There you go. That's something, Jason. I guess so, yeah, yeah, yeah. Suck my dick, James Blake. You big, but you ain't that big. I actually had an amazing conversation with James Blake that night that I have to fill you in on because I think you would get a kick out of it. We started talking to each other, and we started talking about food, and he was asking me what kind of food I like, and I was like, you know, I really love Indian food. I have this ritual whenever I come off tour, I get Indian food. It's sort of my go-to comfort food, and he was telling me, There's no real good Indian food in LA, so he cooks a lot of Indian food. He proceeded to talk me through his curry recipe, and he... Let me see if I can find it. He took my phone. He took my phone out of my hand, and he wrote, James Blake Curry, and then writes this sort of vague curry recipe. He goes... Hold on, hold on, guys. Holden just showed us his phone, and it says James Blake Curry, and then it's just a list of the ingredients and way to prepare. But there's no measurements, really? It's just kind of like... I mean, we're at the St. Laurent party. He's not going to be giving me measurements, so he just says cumin, mustard. He goes, heat up the oil, low to medium, test the cumin seed fizz, stick in garlic and ginger, chopped. And then the best thing is he goes, deeper taste, longer onion. Wow.

The longer that you cook the onion, the deeper the taste. James is in his head, bro. This is a heady cat. The deeper the taste, the longer the onion. So I have yet to make James Blake Curry, but it was a really wonderful, you know, way to connect with one of my musical heroes. I've got a real – I'm starving. I've got a real craving for some James Blake Curry right now. I love some. Yeah, that does sound delicious, especially on a nice, rainy, chilly day in New York. What's better than a James Blake Curry? That's Curry with some trap hats, you know. That's Curry with trap hats and like a Travis Scott verse, you know. I always forget. I always forget that he did all that stuff. It's weird. I don't think about that. He's a monster. He is truly one of the... I totally forgot about that. I only think of the original stuff, like the Pitchfork kind of era. We make fun of James Blake a lot on this podcast just because we're assholes, but his first album and a lot of his early work is... It's so good. I was never really a master. I was respected in him, but I wasn't really a fan until I went. He did this series of solo shows, solo piano, and he played at the Ace Hotel. And I stumbled into it. Someone gave me a ticket and I went and it was just him and a grand piano and a drum machine. And it was one of the most moving performances I've ever seen. I mean, when somebody can do shit like that, I'm impressed. Like anytime anybody can be up there basically with like nothing and fill the room like that, like you got to give props. Speaking of Hello Gone Live, coming to your city soon. Just two guys in a mic. We don't even have a piano. Kind of makes you think, doesn't it? I don't know how to use an MPC, so we're going to be kind of freewheeling. So it's going to be, yeah, it reminds me of the... You could learn. The classic Kanye West performance with Pusha T on the VMAs where he's just in the pink suit playing the MPC alone on the stage. Doing Runaway? Yeah, Runaway, the only good song. It's one of the greatest songs of all time. You know, I was actually realizing that, I mean, you guys are doing a version of the tour that I did on my last headline run, which is super cool because you're doing Webster Hall and El Rey. And I was seeing that and I was having this sort of...

PTSD slash nostalgia feeling of like, oh, that's... The Webster Hall to El Rey balance is a good one. Pipeline? I mean, no, we're excited. It's a little... When you don't have to pay any other musicians, it's really awesome, too. Oh, my God, dude. I mean, how was touring for you guys? I'm super curious. What is that like? Any money that we save by not having any musicians, equipment, tour buses, vans, blah, blah, blah. We make up for it in flying first class and staying at the Four Seasons. It's still a wash. Yeah, we're losing as much money as you. It's just a different way. It's just a different approach. But we look good doing it, and we've got eight hours of sleep. Yeah, because, see, we're like seven people on a holiday, Dan, and you're two people at the Four Seasons. It does kind of equal out. It really does. I mean, I don't know if – Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I just think that touring for us, it's fun and I think it really is like a, and I hate to use this word, but it's like a weird community thing because I just so appreciate taking something. We like non-digital communities. Yeah, I like taking something offline because of, I just think it's important and I think that like a podcast is such a weird parasocial thing that people have this like phone relationship with. So if we can take that and make it like a reality and people get to meet each other and have fun, that's kind of what it's all about. You don't have to use Slack. Totally. Yeah, we don't have to have a Discord meetup. Right, and that goes both ways because your fans and your community are able to humanize you. Totally. And then you're able to be inspired by the fact that they're real people. Yeah. That are in a room and the energy is moving and they're there and they're listening to you. And I'm sure it makes you come back to doing these tapings much more inspired. No, totally. It's fun. And also, I mean, it's also when you kind of think your fan is one thing and then you see them and you're like, you're not as fat as I thought you were going to be. That's what Chris thinks. But really touring, our live shows really are just a means for me to get DJ sets because that's where I make my real money. You know what I'm saying? Because I don't split that money at all.

And, you know, you're just getting paid thousands of dollars. I don't even take 20%. I don't even take 20% for negotiating. I let him hang out in the booth, and I think that's enough for him. I do get to be a booth bunny. Okay, dude, because I'm new to this whole DJ thing. I started DJing the last six months. Okay. And it's, yeah. I am by no means a professional, and I have a lot of reverence for those of... Those of you who are, you included, Jason. But it's like something that in a lot of ways, as a touring musician who tours with seven people, I'm like, oh, this is a really, this is like a really, this is a good situation in a lot of ways, right? These are, I enjoy these profit margins more so, is what you're saying? Yeah, if we're talking pure profit margins, it's a good situation. You know, you see these guys, like, you get a laptop, take a private jet to the festival, get a couple million dollars. Take the private jet back. The songs have already been played and recorded. Yeah, there's no Clive Davis NYU music school necessary for this. This is kind of straight ahead. The guitars are in tune every time. I don't have to go to a four-year college for $60,000 a year to learn how to DJ. In fact, if you go to college, it makes you worse at DJing. Yeah, that's true. It somehow makes you worse. So what kind of DJ sets are you doing over here, Holden? Okay, so last winter, I finished up a bunch of touring. And I wanted to end the year and do a party in LA. So I threw a party, Delaware Gap and Friends party. And I had wanted to start DJing because as I'm getting more into the fashion space, there's just more opportunities to do it. Taking money out of my child's hands. God damn it. No, I'm just kidding. I don't have any kids. Jason's got two dogs to feed, Holden. Think about that next time. I got two dogs and I don't have those cheekbones, you little bitch. God damn it. And they like the expensive food. I know, right? Oh, my God. Okay, so, no, I'm just fucking with you. I obviously... No, no, no, of course. I'm only saying that because I was recently released from my Fendi Casa. Oh, okay, okay, okay. So the wounds are still... Well, listen, if and when you want to have a kind of moody, aloof, electric guitar indie guy project... Uh-huh.

I'm here to help. He's welcoming you with open arms, Jason. It's a trade. I'm going to pay it back. I'm going to pay it back. That's a nice way to look at it. I can get you a $20,000 360 deal with any indie label. You name it. Let me be your manager. I got a lot of friends I can call, man. After commissions and taxes, you'll probably have about enough left for... I'll have enough for a 12-egg omelet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. Yeah, literally, literally. Yeah, maybe I'll hire you as an accountant before we do that, probably. Yeah, great. Yeah, he's an accountant slash manager, so he's kind of double-dipping on the commissions. Classic Holden. I remember when you did that party, and you did one recently in New York, too, though, didn't you? Yeah, we just did the same thing. We did a pop-up at the flower shop. and played a show there i saw it look like a look like a real shit show oh yeah it was crazy i mean we set up the full band in the basement of the flower shop and did this open rsvp and we had like 7 000 people rsvp and dylan you know they they called my manager and we're like dude we gotta hire security and we gotta tell the nypd you know there's gonna be a riot which everyone was rightfully very concerned. I'm sitting over like, this is gold. Yeah, this is the best possible outcome for you. I'm hoping for an astroworld kind of scenario right now. Absolutely not. My words, not yours, not yours. Luckily, my fans are like the most... Kind, sensitive, thoughtful, respectful people. So, you know, we showed up at 3 p.m. and there was like a thousand people there around the block. And they were apologizing for waiting in line. They're so sweet. They all had their books. You know, they're reading, you know, they're reading like Rimbaud in line. I love it. They're sharing snacks. They're sharing like adorable snacks they got from Korea last year. Literally. Yeah. No, we can only fit 200 people in the venues. My manager was like, yo, why don't you go outside and play for, you know, the thousand people that are stuck outside. So I went outside to go play in the street. And once again, these kids are so polite, they wouldn't step out of line. So they're all sort of watching from line. I was like, no, guys, like, come, come over here, like trying to get people to mix a little bit. And we ended up, you know, getting a crew and I played a few songs.

It was really special. It was a really beautiful moment. Was this like acoustic guitar and you just kind of yelping? Yeah, it was acoustic guitar and yelping. They basically shut down two whole blocks of traffic. I was hoping this was more like Beatles. It was less Beatles on the roof and it was more... Imagine Dragons at the WGA strike is kind of what the vibe was. Yeah, I mean, that's what I was, you know, when we were putting the event together, Imagine Dragons was the cover of the mood board, you know. Yeah, no, that's what, you were like, if we could do anything, it would be kind of this. This vibe, yeah. But the difference was the people on the sidewalk actually wanted to hear you versus. They were happy to be there. They had waited in hopes to see you perform. They had waited. But it was this beautiful New York moment, right, because we shut down traffic and there was all these people honking and yelling, like, get the fuck out of the way. the street and when people realized what it was people were getting out of their cars it was great so people were getting out of their cars and watching and you there's people coming out on their fire escapes and then oh that's great sounds like a rob thomas featuring santana music video honestly It really does. The hot dog guy's like, they're all free. Yeah, no, it's exactly like that. That was also in the PDF with Imagine Dragons. That was actually the second slide, yeah. So then after that, we went in and we played in the bar. We did a full set in the bar, and that was great. It was real sloppy, and then it was sort of a one, two, three, and then I DJed. Wow, a full. You get a triple dip. Hold in three ways, as they say. That's right, baby. Holden, thank you for joining us on How Long Gone. It was a pleasure. Are you doing the Tom Brown thing tonight? I am. I'll see you there. I just came back from my fitting. I can't go. I have to go to this J. Crew dinner. I really appreciate you thinking of me. I was just telling someone, whenever I get a one-word text from Chris Black, the yo, I know something good's coming.

yo i mean look yo i just think that you know we're helping each other don't look at it that way but i'm glad you're doing it i'm glad what are you wearing if you don't mind because this will come out tomorrow after the party i i mean it's i go there and they're the sweetest people you know i i was i love going doing fittings there because they always They're very thoughtful about it. They have a spectrum. These are the more classic Tom Brown looks, and then we're going to work our way towards the more avant Tom Brown look. Yeah, for sure. And so I tried on a little bit of everything. I really wanted to go with the classic short, but I tried on this amazing sort of boxy suspender look with a cardigan under it. So it's layered because I'm performing. so they said you know you want to have a layer so you can of course you can wear the jacket as you schmooze and then you can take it off of course and smart they think of ever kelly and matt think of everything over there i tell you what it's unbelievable they're super cool and you know i i did the skirt I did the classic suit, so I thought it was time to go elsewhere. Yeah, I understand. That's great. Well, look, break a leg, and hopefully we can catch a show on this tour. Yeah, likewise. In the same place. Yeah, if you're here, let us know. We'll see you soon. Yeah, it was so good to chat with you guys. Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity. Pleasure. Thank you, Holden. Enjoy your party. Hope you get a little sleep tonight. I will. We'll talk to you later. Bye. Bye.