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All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on youtube how long gone celery root puree is on offer what a great way to start my afternoon jason how are you i'm doing pretty well i had some celery root uh in my chicken stock this morning chris and i also had some roasted celery root yesterday it's a good digestive vegetable you know that right i don't know much about celery uh except it gets the train out of the track off the track except it feels like it it it just seems like a vehicle for water to me yeah and you drink a lot of it don't you you think you'd be on team water i don't know i am i know i'm on team water i want to be very clear i just i would rather drink it than ingest it You know, by eating. I do injections. It's easier. And you could do other stuff with your mouth while it's happening. But, yeah, I'm good. I went to – had a hike. Just did a little kettlebell leg day. And I'm feeling good. Drinking some Tinker instant coffee. I'm sort of becoming into instant coffee. I guess that's like a full circle. From being like, I like Starbucks, to like, I need to pour over fourth generation, I need to know where the beans come from, to instant coffee's fine. It's how we all are just like, well, the best food in the world is just a hash brown for McDonald's at the end of the day. I mean, that's kind of, yeah, it is along those same lines. Can you...

You sent something to the group chat on your hike. Can you describe what that was for the people at home that weren't on the chain? You betcha. You betcha. Yeah, I was just doing a solo hike in Glendale, hoping to get spotted and discovered on the trail. No luck yet. I heart. And there's a guy, you know, when old people do the walk and they'll kind of swing their arms around. You see it over in Chinatown and NYC. Yeah, of course. My Armenian homies will kind of slap themselves in the chest. with one arm and the other. And there was a guy on the other side of the mountain who was doing that, flailing his arms around. And I was like, I'm going to catch him in one of my famous zooms. Am I zooming in? Yes, of course. And I did a slow zoom. It was a pinch zoom. Okay. So I got a little more control over it. Yeah, thank you for getting nitty gritty with us. We have a creative agency on the pod today, so I think we're going to have a lot of DPs tuning in. They want to know about how I pull focus. The more I zoomed in, the more I realized that this guy was doing all that stuff, swinging his arms around in a Tai Chi kind of way. But his shorts were pulled down to let his penis soak up the sun as well. Cheryl Crow voice, he was letting his hog soak up the sun as well, is what you're saying. That is right. What a great song. And he was soaking it up from here to Santa Monica Boulevard. It was one of those rare organic discoveries where you see a guy moving his arms and you're like, that's funny enough for Instagram stories, and then you zoom in closer, and it was an organic discovery that I saw his little dick. See, when social media is good, it's good. Am I right? Because you wouldn't have been taking that video to just share it with the group chat. I think your idea was that you could maybe include it in something later, some of your content creation. I never know what hole I'm going to put everything, all my content. into that's kind of the beauty and that's sort of how i create whether it be you know a podcast artwork or if i have to name a cocktail that's made out of dussey diet coke and cold brew coffee and have we got as a segue have we gotten some ideas submitted because i'm coming up with nothing i had a couple people submit uh one of them was good but it only covered the dussey

And the Diet Coke. I think somebody said Diet Dussy, which is good, but that's just how you would order. Let me get a Diet Vodka. It's not a cocktail name. It's just a description of what you'd like in a glass. Someone else. Let me see. Was it on Twitter? I kind of feel like they need to have a shout out. Oh, that good. Okay. I'd love to hear that. Okay. His name is Clay Thomas. That sounds like a made up name. From Texas. Sounds like a made up name. Or Clay Thomas at. His suggestion, which is a callback to something that we have talked about on the pod before, a name that we mentioned, Thin Diesel. It makes you feel diesel as hell. Repeat it, Thin Diesel is what you're saying. Yeah, a play on words of Vin Diesel. Yeah, yeah, I got that. So you've got the diesel part. It's pumping you up with cold brew and dussy. But it's thin because it's diet. And it's thin because it's diet. And it has a fun play on words. What do you think? I like that a lot, actually. And I think that... It's sort of in the same flora and fauna of an Incredible Hulk. And that's the style of name that we need for this cocktail. It can't just be like, this is a bee sting. You know what I mean? Yeah, I agree. And also when you... you know, kind of allude to a famous person's name in something, you could cause controversy and therefore help the rollout, get a lot of eyeballs on the Thin Diesel. Yeah. That is also something to think about. It's an added bonus. Yeah. And people who drink it have no problem offending Vin Diesel. Oh, no, no, no. As well as Shaquille O'Neal, DJ Diesel, my sworn enemy. I forgot that. I forgot that's his DJ name. I forget that he makes more money than real DJs every day of his life. He makes more money than real DJs by doing, like, an arthritis wheelchair commercial at four in the morning. Well, that, of course, that. But isn't he, he's not actually that bad of a DJ, right? Like, it's fine. I don't think anyone has ever even paid enough attention to what he's playing to gauge if he is good or bad. I think he's, I'm sure he's fine enough. He can line the two red lines up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure, sure, sure. He knows that 70 comes after 69.

He definitely knows that. You know what I'm saying? Big Shaq. You know what I'm saying? I wanted to give a quick shout-out to a previous guest of How Long Gone and friend of the show, Caroline Calloway, who said she literally had sex with Luigi, the healthcare CEO assassin. So a lot of women on social media seem to be thirsting after Luigi's six-pack abs as well as some of the fellas Mel Onbergs of the world. And it's nice to know somebody who's confirmed. I can't believe anything Caroline Calloway says. Of course not. But I also think if anybody would have fucked this guy, it would be her or one of the first 100 Feed Me subscribers. That's kind of where I'm going with it. No, we're thinking about people who fuck, Chris. I know, but I think this guy's a nerd, too. This guy's a nerd, dude. He's hot, but he's a nerd. Sure, sure, sure, sure. If you really get into it, I haven't been following it. that closely, except when the picture dropped yesterday. It's sort of the only news that's been released. How have you not been? What else has been stealing your... Santa Ana winds are coming into town? No, no, no. I'm aware of it. Trouble in Syria? I just don't really... I can't really... With a story like this, I'm not really getting past the headlines too much. I don't need to read the details. I don't really care about the details. It's more fun to just look at it on Twitter and see a few things here and there and laugh. Okay. Than try to like... play detective you know oh yeah yeah yeah i'm i'm not playing detective although it has there have been some fun coincidences that you know well i'll talk to our guests about it because you know what else are we going to talk about right well i think well i think jay-z has something to do with it but we can get to that we can you know no yeah we didn't talk about hof who is really loving this whole it's the rock this whole mess right now that's pulling focus away from him that's why that's why it feels twisted ways it feels orchestrated that's what i'm saying bro it doesn't feel it doesn't feel organic i'll say that okay so you think that the ceo shooter is maybe Beanie Siegel Beans gave him the orders to put the hit out on him so he could move the spotlight away from home. So you think Beans and Jay-Z are still in contact? You actually think that? Well, I'm thinking who would be one of Jay-Z's... Foot soldiers? Shooters, foot soldiers. Yeah, somebody who would go and do some dirt. I think Beans would know somebody. I think Beans would know somebody, but I think with Jay-Z at this point, it's like some like...

white guy who went to harvard who has is like a sniper you know what i mean that that's what i'm i don't think they're going to get okay he's not putting his money on the street into the streets no he's not going to get a street dude that he knows from under the lamp post he's getting a certified killer okay Okay, he's getting a valedictorian. Yeah, he's getting a... With a veterinarian's pistol, which I don't know. I never knew that was a thing. I didn't know that you could just go to like a livestock store. I didn't know that either. I've been to a livestock store where they sold the cattle prods, like the electric ones, and I zapped myself with one. How was it? Really bad idea. Really bad, okay. So much stronger than the normal taser that you would kind of jackass style tase your friend in the balls with. This sounds like a... uh young tj like why would you even be in a feed store exactly okay i just want to clear out why would i be in a feed store was i being trafficked who knows why and and you already know i did you know how i take it i walk up there's a cattle prod sitting there you hit the button pull the trigger you get excited then you're like maybe i'll touch it against my arm and then you know jolt of pain you know your teeth start vibrating but i never made a sound I just put the taser back on the shelf. Never told my friend who I was with or my mommy or whoever. Oh, you did this in private. I did this in private. I took the L. I took the zap. I took the volts. That's brave. I took the voltage. That really is brave. Live to fight another day. What am I going to do? Scream? Yeah, I mean, that's true. I think when you're inflicting the harm on yourself, the screams might go unanswered by the local feed store employees. But also, some people just have an uncontrollable, instinctual reflex where you just scream when something painful happens to you. I wouldn't know anything about that. Not Virgos. Us Virgos, we take it. I love it. That's why I have so many rib tattoos and stuff. I just love the pain. I love the pain. Yeah, so do you think Jay-Z did it? For sure. I think Jay-Z is on the level of Taylor Swift as far as evil goes. Okay. That's what I think. It's The Rock. Do you think that Jay-Z is retired from doing dirt now? These are allegations that happen. Oh, yeah. I don't think he did anything. I don't think he's actually guilty of what he's being charged with, but I think he has had people killed. Yeah. I don't really picture him having sex with children. It doesn't seem like in his agenda.

Unless it's Aaliyah. Regular now. Regular now. My bad. Sorry, Hope. It's just one of those things where rarely I am seated and I am gagged. You just gagged me, but not in a way that you insulted me and hit a direct hit close to home. More of a way of like... There's so many jokes to be made right now, but I'm doing a gag order on myself because it's just too treacherous. It's a minefield. I understand. I served it up, and you said, no, no, send it back to the kitchen. I don't want this. Which is very rare. It is. So kudos to you. It is rare. Because I'll eat every slop that comes out of that kitchen. I know. All that fucking celery. I'll take it mashed, cold, hot. Yeah, I wanted to give a quick shout-out to Le Bernardin for hosting us last night. We had kind of a holiday meeting of the minds with... conrad and mickey from industry are in town and and mickey's wife daisy and alex and nomi and cho um and it was it was insane how busy that restaurant was at 8 30 on a monday night do you think if i lived in new york i would have been invited to this or or not really yeah i think you were kind of the missing link actually because that was seven people we need an eighth much like a ditty party we need an eighth That's funny. You could have really come in. You were missed, as always. You were missed, as always. In this culinary freak-off, I would have been the perfect eighth that would sort of seal the deal. We've got a human centipede that's missing one Cuban link, and I'm just the hole in the pole to fill in that gap. We've got a guest today. Cuban links. All right. We're just going to do our intro really quick, so you're going to go ahead and mute your damn self. All right, we have some guests today. You're familiar with Play Lab, the creative studio in L.A. that has done everything that you like. They have this great office downtown. I've known Archie for a little while, but I'm excited to get into the weeds about how they got that F-250 in the water for Post Malone's album cover. Yeah, they've done it all Post Malone, a lot of the early Virgil stuff, LVMH shit.

Fred again. Justin Timberlake. They did Molly Boz's book. Marc Jacobs. The list goes on, bro. I mean, you name it. Damn, I didn't know they did Molly. Oh, I remember the Marc Jacobs thing. It was really good. They did that crazy skate ramp or the skate park thing in Paris with Vans. They also just did this new Adidas thing in the middle of New Mexico. Oh, really? They built a crazy track. in the middle of nowhere well i'm going to new mexico in a couple weeks maybe they'll they'll give me a wisp band i think it's i think it's probably no longer there they had to return the earth the way they found it but yes damn one can hope that's chill that's chill um okay so yeah we're going to talk about all things experiential blah blah blah let's give them a call all right this episode of how long gone is brought to you by quince Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada.

That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking... Something put together, a cabinet. Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf. TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And, I mean, how it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture. repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a Tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because Taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs, handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world, is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code. how long taskers book up faster, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code how long with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned.

They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Who drinks more Celsius, though? That's me. I've never had a Celsius. You've never had a Celsius, Jeff. I'm proud of you. I've had a couple and I'm embarrassed by it. I think I smell it every now and then. I don't even like the smell necessarily. That's what I used to say about Red Bull. When I would smell a Red Bull, it would just remind me of a gas station. It wasn't... advertising in any way yeah but you say it in in a like that's a bad thing chris the shell of red bull when you're in the when you're in the right mood it's it's like when you get a little whiff of cocaine you know what i mean yeah yeah it gives you it's an upper yeah you just you start that is what archie what's your flavor this whole conversation is triggering for me um orange orange sparkling uh sometimes maybe strawberry kiwi or no wait yeah like a guava kiwi kiwi whatever it is It's not a good habit. I'm not necessarily proud of it. But does it still work? Because I find with even coffee, it doesn't work anymore, really. Yeah, I mean, I try not to do it, and everybody in the studio definitely tries to hold me accountable. But last night, I got in from a flight at 1 a.m. with my family, and I knew that this morning I was going to be fucking wrecked, which I wasn't, actually. But I had a couple coffees and then a Celsius. I run too hot anyways. I probably shouldn't, but I... There's so much I want to do. I was actually fine, but I had two coffees and selfies. The chest pains were okay. They were workable. I just did one defibrillator, and I was kind of back in action. You landed at 1, which means you go to bed at 2.30 or whatever. You got a kid or something. Exactly. What time did you wake up this morning? 6.30. He woke up screaming my name. We made a bowl of cinnamon toast crunch, which turned into 2.5.

Two and a half bowls. Made his lunch for the day. I'm seeing a lot of – I'm seeing you have control issues is what I'm saying because you can't stop the Celsius. You can't stop the – look, these are – luckily, these are mostly harmless. You know, you're not talking about oxys, but – And you said your son woke you up by screaming your name. Does he call you Archie or does he call you Daddy? Dad. Or does he call you Daddy Archie? Okay. Daddy Archie is – He lately is excited that he's a fit, so he's been – He has been calling me the fourth, which is cute. Oh, that's nice. That's very nice. I like that a lot. I like that a lot. Well, I feel like Archie weirdly is like a kid's name. It's like a name kids want to say. You know what I mean? Archie Comics. Yeah, Christopher doesn't roll off the tongue the way Archie does when you're six. There's Christopher cartoon characters. What I want to know is how long can the lineage go before it's too many. the fourth the fifth the sixth the twelfth you know what i mean it's a great question it's where are we capping it no he's got to keep it going as long as possible i agree like george foreman and we and when when archie had when archie had his son it was the conversation like oh like should i like you know we're like come on i like that and when you have when that opportunity presents itself yeah so you guys you guys whipped up a debt a deck to kind of show the client about naming and kind of went through it yeah you have to make informed decisions you joke You joke. You gave your wife some thought starters. The reason that reminded me is because years ago, Ben Edgar gave me a deck to show me which car I should buy. This is no joke. A 10-page deck breaking down all the ins and outs of these automobiles. And I was like, bro, this is so nerdy, but it's incredibly helpful. I have to love it. It's a great format to make an argument. It is a great format to make. I should look at it more like that and less of a place for pretty pictures. Yeah. I think that's where I'm fucking at. Sometimes those pictures are key to the argument. You just want thoughtful friendships. I do. I do love thoughtful friendships. Where were you coming from? Were you on a family holiday? Yeah. I'm from Virginia Beach, Virginia, and it was my brother's baby shower with his wife. And we went down there and spent time, which we don't really do.

Jeff and I, neither of us do as the studio has gotten so busy. Because you guys grew up together. You guys are like OG. You grew up together, right? OG college. Yeah. 19 years old. Okay. Well, for people that went to college, that's when life starts. Jason and I had to find each other later in life. We've hit the scale. We've known each other longer than we've not known each other at this point. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Of course. That's a big milestone. You're about to make me cry. Y'all fitting to make me cry. What's up in Virginia Beach? I've never been there before. You've never been to Virginia Beach? Ain't shit to do but cook, Chris. Ain't shit to do but cook. But do you consider it the South? Do you consider it the South? I mean, yeah, I guess so. But I never like growing up, we didn't think about it like that. Virginia Beach felt like it felt like an island in so many ways because we only knew. I mean, I grew up in sort of like skate, surf, punk, like hardcore. So you have like D.C. and Virginia Beach and you had you either listen to. you either listen to clips or you listen to strung out, you know? And so you're like literally living and breathing. You're living and breathing Virginia Beach. You just described this podcast. We're both somehow clips and strung out. I don't know how we do it. So you're saying it felt a little middle. It's like the middle a little bit. Like you had to choose a side though. For better or for worse, I think that I'm trying not to be as naive now at 40. But I grew up relatively naive. didn't think about the rest of the world. I think that's been the journey of the last like 25 years is being exposed to the rest of the world. But no, I didn't even think about it as the South. It just was like Virginia Beach, you're so proud of where you come from. And we have so many friends that are, you know, just love what they do. right it's not like a about a sign of success or something and it's like well how many well there's a strange thing how many of these friends have boats though let's start there yeah right pharrell yeah let's start there guys that have boats that were designed by another guy that's a different thing that's a whole different that's a different thing i don't know any well maybe we do have friends that have like little dinghy boats but jeff do you have friends that have boats

No, but I'm landlocked. I'm from the eastern panhandle of West Virginia. So you know people who have boats, but they're just not in water. Exactly. They're in the backyard. Exactly. They're in the driveway. They're on the lawn. They're taking up space. They're installations. Yeah, it's an installation at that point. It's an installation. Yeah, it's weird. I've never been to Virginia Beach, and I know it was a very popular stop on the hardcore tour routing. Yeah. Also in sort of the freak Nick freak off. style where world i think it had a there's some good partying to do back in the day as well right fellas you ever do any virginia beach freak off these guys were not invited to those jason but i'm glad in the style of jay-z or puff daddy we were too busy making decks to get invited to this. I couldn't get invited. If you think I'm leaving my Mac Tower to go to a party, you're fucking crazy. This thing does not move around, yeah. This is not portable. Yeah, I just feel like bands used to play there all the time because I guess it's just a stop. If you're going from New York to Atlanta or whatever, it's on the way. 100%. I mean, I grew up with so many shows. I remember my first real big show was This Man Called Pible from Massachusetts. Of course. Can't slow down. Saves the day to work. And that was, like, at the skate park. And all of our friends had their 35-millimeter cameras and got, like, a press pass to be behind the drum kit. Piebald shockingly holds up very well. Incredibly well. I've listened to it in the last six months, and it's really good. He's a genius. That's Chris's leg day. Yeah, that is kind of my leg day. That is a crazy leg day. He's a funky guy.

I'm a kooky cat. The thing about that kind of music is, though, that it's, like, upbeat the whole time. You know what I mean? So it does lend itself to exercise because it's nonstop. It's my whole, like, upbringing, you know? And, like, even now, like, my workout routine is now death grips, but that's, like, uplifting to me. You're one twisted cat. Yeah. I don't think I've ever heard Death Grips. Who's in it? Isn't there a guy that's, like, an artist now? Was Honor Titus in Death Grips? I forget the singer's name, but he's incredible. But I just remember the drummer, Zach Hill, which was, like, the first drummer in this band called Waves with this guy Nathan Williams that grew up in Virginia Beach, actually. And that was, like, the first time I remember, like, knowing a drummer's name. Wait, we know that. We know that fucking freak. Friend of the show. Virginia Beach. Virginia Beach. Love the guy. When he did the podcast, he was living in his parents' laundry room, but somehow... So he doesn't have a boat? Is that what you're saying? He doesn't have a boat, but I think he's a guy who... One of my favorite kinds of guys who feels like it's going bad, but he definitely has more money than all four of us in crypto. And he held the line. He lives in his mom's laundry room because it's part of the plan that you should trust. Yeah, exactly. No, exactly. Exactly. He's an indie rock slumlord. Shout out. He's listening right now. You guys want to say hi to him? Hi, Nathan. That was a big thing for us is that we platformed him as a indie rock landlord. We support, because there was a while where indie rock landlords were getting kind of killed on stereo gum, and we gave him a platform. We've been rehabilitating their image. We've been going to the mat rehabilitating their image. Yeah, if you guys ever purchase like a duplex or up, things start getting a little shaky. Give us a call. We don't have our phone numbers on our website. Give us a ring, and we'll come. I saw you, or I heard you wade into that territory with Kinsella in the American Football House. You were trying to get something out of him. Yeah, we were. Yeah, we were. He's, I mean, he's a, I mean, come on. He's the archetype for a slum lord. Are you kidding me? Oh, love it. Love it, love it, love it. Yeah, you can't slum a slum lord, you know? You can't lord a slum. I don't know. I think that's it. Well, I wanted, we were talking about Dex a little bit ago.

And I was thinking, I've done a few decks. I don't have much experience in the creative agency world like the three of you do. But do you believe that sort of creative work died once we all had to show our strategy on page 11? Or are you guys' strategy stands? We're stands. I mean, I think for Jeff and I, this is the only job. This is basically the only job I've ever had. The beginning of the studio 20 years ago was like an incredible amount of- You guys started this shit 20 years ago? Yeah, playlab.org, yeah. That's why they're on the pod, bro. 20th anniversary. We got a bottle of Ducey coming to the office. Yeah, we're sending a bottle of Ducey over downtown. Okay. I didn't realize that. The 20th is the cognac year. Sorry, go ahead. I didn't know. I'm sorry. I don't read press releases when it's people I know. That's my bad. Exactly. And Chris, I appreciate that. Yeah, I don't need to know the information. I'll find out. Okay, so 20 years is a long time. 20 years since we met in college and then started the website and said, let's try this thing. Let's try this. And then we got incorporated. How many years later? I forget. Oh, nine. A few years later. Oh, nine. So like technically 15 years on the books official. Sure. Sure. The IRS is listening. So thank you for that. Thank you for that. You got a common law, common law, creative agency, 20 years. OK, well, sell me a strategy hater on strategy. I think for I mean, for me personally, do it in an obtuse way, please. An abstract obtuse way. Yeah, I think like I just. We have so many conversations and so many ideas, like in the beginning and even now, where you don't have all the time in the world to explain why. And it's always the challenge of being like, I really think this would be great to exist. And you have to think about exactly how you're going to say it. It just so happened that the deck, which is such a funny term in agency world, has just been a thing that's been such a natural tool for us to explain.

you know, yeah, our brain and how we think, which allows us to sketch or draw or reference or really play with the way we're describing things, which is so nerdy. But it's such a fun activity, at least for me and nobody else. Yeah, the creative part is fun. But then explaining why it works to a fucking corporation doesn't sound that fun. Well, here's what I do. Here's what I do. I just say, like, get down or lay down, bitch. This is the idea. Like, I don't know what you want me to say. Love it. I can't explain. I guess that's the problem. Chris and I are from the school of a good idea should speak for itself. If you if I have to explain why it's going to work to you, then you're never going to understand it anyway. But obviously, Chris and I don't have. a thousand clients on our list for our agency that doesn't exist. Our way obviously did not work, so it's fine. Let me be clear, it didn't work. It didn't work at all. So I know that it's necessary, but I guess it makes me sort of romanticize the days, you know, 70s, we're smoking in the office and throwing, playing darts and, oh, I got the, you know, Mad Men style, I got the idea, the bean counters can figure out the rest kind of thing, you know? But I think that a big part of every industry now, especially the ones that you guys kind of, uh, operate in is like, there's a lot of people with a lot of jobs with a lot of power to give away money and they need to feel valuable and they need to feel like they understand it. That's the more, that's the more, like I've had to explain things to like, you know, a room full of orange County moms and I'm just like, yeah, you don't, sorry, sorry. Nothing wrong with my Queens. I'm like, I don't expect you guys to, I don't expect you guys to fully get it, but like you have to, you have to listen to me at least, you know, it's tough. It is difficult. I think we knew early on that we were, Or maybe we didn't know. We just kind of had a sense that we're in a service industry. As much as we are and practice as artists, we're also service providers. And to do that, like you said, money is the part. We have an idea. We need somebody to pay for creating this thing. So we knew we needed to build an argument to convince them. And we wanted to turn it into...

basically make that an asset turn it into part of our sport let's treat that as something that we if we perfect that we have a greater chance of getting a crazy idea made versus we hit the wall many times early on we would go in and be like we don't need to explain why like just take a look this is going to be this is it like don't you don't even need to understand why or how it's going to get made just like sit back okay and relax and like let us do the thing and then let's do our thing and let's do our thing and then we you know got rejected and fired from multiple projects. We're like, oh, let's just rethink. Let's turn this part into an equal part of the game. What if we built the brakes on the car with as much respect and time as the engine or something like that? Yeah, yeah. I think we also were studying and right out of school while we were doing PlayLab on the side, we were also working our jobs. I was working at this architecture office in New York City called Rex. The head of that studio came from a philosophy background, and he basically would just drill into all of us this kind of how you build an argument is how you will get past these certain client loopholes and eventually get something which can be interesting, radical, made. But if you don't have that, it's a lot harder of a battle, and it takes a lot longer to get somebody to trust you to do it. And we wanted to... figure out how do we get trust when we're starting a studio with no focus okay we're like what do you mean no focus and we're like follow us down this path you know so we'll just we do it all bro we do it all what do you need is really the question what do you need what do you need i also think like jeff very early on was very you know adamant that an idea is an idea if you describe it but the really good ideas rely on its execution and how it comes to life and it It could be its physical execution, but really it's also the process by which people went through it and what they felt and that whole thing. And then the end result becomes a symbol of everything else that was done to get there. And so that's why we're, it's like playful and it's ridiculous, but it's also incredibly diligent.

practiced right to kind of get to that luckily idea well luckily now you got i mean you know if i see the capabilities deck i'm writing a check i don't need you to explain shit you know what i'm saying i'm saying i saw the ramp and i was like give these guys money bro i don't know this this looks cool to me i don't know but that's a really good example like the ramp right it's like we look at it not as the sculpture the installation or the moment whatever like let's say the sterling ruby one during the freeze for fans otw It's more like for us, it's a symbol of the relationships of the people that were integral to the trust of that thing to get it there. And when we think about those things or like even like Post Malone's last record for F1 trillion, it's like we think about all of the people involved that got that thing done. And then it really becomes about like a team or process. Those two examples also require a lot of people. A lot of people. That requires a lot of people. I did want to ask you about Post Malone because I think it's – I just – can you tell me how you did it? I just want to know how you did it because I – Did what? There's a fucking truck like on a crane, bro, going into the water. You just answered your question. They use a crane. It's a crane. No, but it's based on – but isn't it based on like a piece of art? Isn't it like – It is. Or did you hire the artist? Or did you hire the artist to do that? Okay, I got you. I got you. I got you. Major shout out Bobby Greenleaf. on Post's team that really was instrumental in making this all happen, but it was a commission to Gonzalo La Brea, this Mexican artist who famously does those works. Post was excited about it. We felt that it was symbolic in a multitude of ways, but ultimately you hand over the trust. This truck actually was Gonzalo's truck, and he gutted it himself. and then craned it, dropped it, took the multiple images. Yeah, it was crazy. I liked it. Post Malone might be one of the three artists left that can get that kind of budget for an album. God bless him. God bless him. Yeah, well. Yeah, actually, speaking of, what was the budget for that? Who knows? You know, I think, you know. How much did they pay you? That's a great question, too. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace.

Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash how long for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code how long to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Hi Talk House Network listeners, it's your old friend Nels Klein from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan, Chautauqua, New York, Lafayette, New York, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Vienna, Virginia, Forest Hills, New York, Portland, Maine, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Memphis, Tennessee, LaGrange, Georgia, Charleston. South Carolina, Virginia Beach, Virginia, Wheeling, West Virginia, and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilkoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer. Dear Canadian exporters, our ambitions, our ideas, and our potential were never meant to be boxed in.

Nothing can contain us. With the support of Export Development Canada's market insights and financial solutions, you can turn obstacles into opportunities, discover new markets, and keep our nation front and center on the global stage. The world needs more Canada. Together, let's give it to them. Visit edc.ca to learn more. So you hire him. He does his thing, basically. And, and that's like, you don't have to intervene that much because that you're trusting him to kind of do as, as directed. Yeah. For that piece and that image for the principal cover. Yeah. I mean, nobody even went, it was just him and his team. So he went, he went out there. So he shoots it too. In Mexico on a lake. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. I like that. No, no wonder. Yeah. It's very cool to be like, all right, bro, we'll see you when we see you. And you just get the final image back. There's no, that's where the trust comes in and you have label and management and you're like, wow, that's, this is a lot. that goes into this thing and to get it back and and then build a whole world around that that is you know fun and but when do you think when do you think people started like this the world of musicians paying out of pocket for it maybe not in this case but in general paying out of pocket for creative services which we've all probably benefited from on this call some more than others yeah um but it that is a modern that is not something that happened when i when i managed a band getting someone paid 10 grand to design the album cover was basically like you're twisting our arm i can't believe you're fucking doing this you know and now it's still a lot yeah but now it feels like the the artist just knows it's worth it i guess which it yeah but i feel like that has something to do with merch as well Like the whole thing, like the rise of merch and the value of that, like it feels like it all plays in together. Yeah. I mean, I just think that like growing up in the bands that I listened to, you worshipped and thought about this idea of being on tour or being in a band like that or just being around music in general. And then you realize what the industry really looks like. And it's only gotten even more different with the amount of songs that are uploaded per day.

The money at play, etc. It's a strange industry, but I think the beautiful thing about it is it's still poetic. It's still art at the end of the day, and it's an emotional industry. The thing about PlayLab, too, is we want to work on things that we want to work on, clearly. So we're looking and trying to identify people that want to have long-term relationships where we can have this conversation over time and really care about these things. I don't think it's necessarily rare, but... but it feels rare when you look at the landscape. Yeah, no, I would say, I mean, I think, you know, musicians are fickle people. They have a lot of moods and ideas, you know, and it's like, it can be difficult to navigate. 20 years in, do you do 100% of your jobs or are they with people that you want to work with or do you do, you know, one in 10 is somebody that you might necessarily want to work with. Obviously, don't name any names, but, you know. Is there ever one where it's like, I don't want to do this, but they're offering a lot of money and we're just going to knock it out kind of thing? That never happens. I mean, I want Jeff to answer this. Jeff, go ahead. Jeff, you have the floor. Because everyone has done it. It does happen. However, the ratio has changed dramatically. Yeah, that makes sense. And dramatically over the past four or five years. amount of trust was built and we were able to you know very lucky because i think when you guys do when you guys do like the stuff you do is pretty high profile so i think every you know general mills on down and on up is paying like sees it and maybe wants something from you um yeah and that yeah so they're coming to you but you you have the power to say now well yeah i would say we know that we're we're super thankful we know we're super lucky to be able to be at that position where we can actually say no and still keep going. But there are times when something comes along. Yeah, you're not stupid. It's a business as well as much as the two sides run equal. Yeah, of course. No, I mean, I think that's – I personally find stuff like that to be –

when something's less cool it feels more challenging which can sometimes be good yeah like you're actually going to be able to make an impact whereas with some stuff it's like i say this all the time i could do whatever i want to this and there's no i'm not moving the needle yeah because it's already that's part of archie's superpower and i'll let him talk about that and that's why we work so well together is he's going to look at any situation and be and just say like the fact that people don't want to do it is why we should do it the fact that people don't like it well let's find a way to convince them that it's good you know there's something in there worth worth exploring and worth like taking a you know past that you don't have to use the make the same mistake twice uh we don't have to work with them again if you don't like it but you know is it worth exploring you know but yeah and that's what i'll pass over to archie like we talk about all the time that we're agnostic to brand or whatever or or artist musician whatever it's more like yeah we want to get to know people and i think that's a little bit more rare these days too to have healthy difficult nuanced relationships and i want to be more pleasantly surprised at the result of a conversation and see if we can actually rise to the occasion where we end up creating something really amazing together and a lot of times you know there's obvious ones in our lineage of work that you're like of course those were amazing and those are almost feel easy from the outside but it's the one that seems challenging yeah that's exactly what i'm saying that that's when i like that's what gets me up in the morning it gets me really excited to come into this studio and be like how do we find a way in together you're describing exactly how i felt when i saw the travis scott chicken nugget that's exactly how that's exactly how i felt that's exactly how i felt you're welcome and i'm glad you were able to put that into work i'll send you a deck archie yeah i know i know you're a tennis guy archie how are we going to fix the u.s open branding It's really taken a shit lately, hasn't it? I know. Literally, you guys said something. There was a meme you posted about the Dime Square starter pack, and there was a US Open hat, and I was wearing that hat at that moment. I was like, fuck me. I haven't seen that since. I'm very influenced by the end. It's like the Toy Story. I'm throwing you away now. I don't want to play with you anymore. Obviously, the US Open has had amazing

Branding for so many years, vintage shirts through all the decades, great logos, classic hat. Just the last year or two, it seems to have gone in a dark direction. What say you? Yeah, and Jason, to answer your question, if the USTA wanted to call PlayLab Incorporated office at playlab.org or at playlab.org, you can DM the lines open. We can make a deck. But I actually like... I'll tell Ben Sheldon to give him a text. Oh, please. Yes. On running. Come at us. No, I think like the bad branding is what's really fun to me. Actually, I grew up going to the US Open. It was my first tournament. My dad worked all Grand Slams for the past 30 years. And so he traveled. Oh, really? He worked for IBM and he ran all the like cables underneath center court. Oh, shit. Live scoring and all this stuff. And he like if you go like. I was just home. He has a shrine to all the memorabilia he's collected. And he's got the Arthur Ashe Sports Illustrated cover on the wall. And that's how I grew up. He was my coach. And it was tennis or architecture. And somehow I chose architecture and met Jeff. But I still love tennis. But I was in New York for a project during the U.S. Open. And I had a little window of time. And I was like, you know, it would be literally at 40 years old. Best thing I could possibly do with my time. I was like, I want to go to the US Open alone. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was just awesome. It was just absolutely awesome. And I didn't have that growing up. I would go with my dad and whatever. But I think like for me, I'm now think like my dad where it's like it's such it is a crazy sport and I get it. But it's like for me, it's the most beautiful sport in the world. And there's all these analogies to what we do at PlayLab 2 and this idea of like it's a solo sport, but it's a team sport at the same time. and it literally requires you running nonstop. It's you and your drug dealer. It's a whole team of people. And your drug dealer, yes. My blood guy flew in. Celsius dealer. Okay, so what you're saying is going to the U.S. Open alone.

You're able to enjoy tennis so much more when you don't have a dad in your ear telling you about these cables are underneath it. Yeah, dad. Like the meme that says, Little Caesar's pizza is really good if you don't have a bitch in your ear telling you it's bad. I was trying to use that. That's exactly right. No, I speak too emotionally. I understand. Now my dad's like, we've got to go on a trip together. And I was like, yeah, what do we do? And he was like, Indian Wells. I was like, great. We're going to Indian Wells. Nice. And we'll spend it. It's been a week out there and do the tournament and whatever. So he was your coach. Was it like a serious, like how serious did you get? Was it like a Will Smith vibe? No, I don't think it was a Will Smith vibe. Not in that he slapped you, but in that the King Arthur, the film. I think it was like he didn't know. He didn't know because I grew up like wanting to play guitar and skateboard and, you know, reading art books and whatever. Why don't you try this real sport? Focus on one thing, you know. It was it was a challenging thing. But I think once once he realized how excited I was about art and that my brain worked that way, you know, then he started championing that. And it was cool. So he wasn't like trying to live his dream through you type shit. No, no. Amazing, supportive person. What item did you have to buy him that finally shut him up? Which Rolex was it? Which boat was it? Yeah, which boat was it? How long was the boat? Tell me when to stop. It was a Sea Ray. We watched Eastbound and Down together and then bought them. No. I bought him a Cartier Crash. That was how it solidified the deal. I want this weird one some of your rapper friends have. You maybe could give me that. Yeah, exactly. Maybe 12 a year. Can we have that? I was going to ask about you like the challenge. I've always talked about it with my wife who's a creative person as well. Like you were saying before, tennis, nobody remembers the guy who kept Wimbledon cool.

But what if you were the guy who made pickleball cool? You know, like that's you're really moving things. Obviously, nobody can ever make pickleball cool. But I wanted to ask you about another, you know, a musical version of pickleball. How could PlayLab have saved? Katy Perry's rollout this summer. Oh, wow. Great question. Great question, Jason. Great question. And you can't produce the music. This is strictly a visual. I know you're in Ableton, Archie, but this is just a strictly rollout. It's in the can, as they say. We're lowering the BPM. Jeff, what say you, Jeff? Oh, God. Don't pass this to me. No, I mean, I think – but I can imagine, though, that you guys see things come out and you're like, damn, this is all – and Katy Perry is not this example, but it's like, damn, that's almost really great. I would have done this, this, and this. I believe there's a way to answer this question without offending anybody. Yeah, no, I think that – My answer is more of like, as you get into artist stuff and like the amount of the type of artists that we've worked with, you find that it's not just about like doing a record cover or something. It's about like having a conversation and being able to be impactful in the way that somebody is thinking about something. And that's why we we ultimately want that long term relationship. Obviously, it's better for business, but it's really helpful to come early in a conversation when things are being developed. And that is when it gets really, really exciting. It doesn't mean it's going to go perfect every time, whatever, but you're looking for those opportunities to think differently about something. And then whatever the music video or the tour or whatever becomes like a symbol of that thing in the best case. It's not easy, but that's why I like how Jeff describes it as a sport. It very much is a sport. And our goal is to always be extremely honest. and do the most amount of possibilities for them in a deck. I want to show them, I want to overwhelm them with choices in a deck. Yeah, exactly. I think you realize how rare it is for people to think that way, and that it is a skill set that we're good at, and we like to dream and imagine what's possible, and also know how to get it done. And once you can make somebody feel good about it. Have you encountered the kind of artist that doesn't really care that much?

If that makes sense, like they care, they want it to be good, but they don't need to be like on every call, like really going through it with you. They're kind of like, this is, that's cool. Let's rock. Yeah. There is a whole spectrum. Like it's a whole spectrum of trust. Right. And some people want to be really, really involved. Some people want to be absolutely trusting of us. And we prefer it in the middle. I think we're like, Jeff and I like to have that conversation and see what's possible. And like, we want it to feel a little difficult. right it's not like we're just sitting here like this would be cool like let's force them to do it it's like you're climbing a mountain and at the end of it you should be like okay that was that was hard it's like when you i'm a runner it's like when you run and you run far and you run successfully and it feels good that's why you do that's why i do it because at the end there's like a mental health benefit or yeah you just feel you feel better i think that's what we're looking for is that we want to feel like we grew and we want to feel like they grew and that's ultimately that's the like unicorn or something yeah no that's the dream that's the dream scenario yeah i feel i understand and running is it is great for mental not so great for your knees i hope you're looking after that awful awful how's your body holding up i have foot surgery on friday so you know it's not the best but um Did you learn about your irregular heart rate when you were going in for a foot surgery checkup? They were like, this foot looks weird. Do you drink Celsius? I'm getting a lot of sparkling orange buildup in the ACL area. Why does it smell orangey in here? I don't know what that is. What do you haven't done to your foot, if you don't mind me asking? I just injured it, and it was a small thing, and I grew into a big thing, and it was ignored, and I kept running aggressively on it. And then I went to the surgeon, and he was like, I cannot believe you're walking right now. You must be in so much pain. And I was like, I am. And so, yeah, it's taken a while to schedule this surgery, but shout out USC on Friday. All right. What's the recovery looking like? We said a couple weeks, so. It's not bad. Perfect time for the holidays. Yeah, well-timed. I was so blown away when my...

My trainer in LA who's probably in his like early to mid thirties had his hip replaced from just years of, of Hunter, like Jason had his hip replaced from just like years of exercise. And I didn't realize this about hip replacement, but they're like, you're basically walking the next day. Like that's the whole, you're supposed to like. start using it as soon as you possibly can because it helps it heal faster. Which is really interesting. Maybe we replace the whole foot. Maybe that would be easier. Just chop this thing off. Just say use it or lose it. Let's lose it. I saw a YouTube video. It looks pretty easy. Yeah, I'm terrified of stuff like that. I'm going to Aspen in a few weeks and I really want to ski and I've skied a handful of times in my life but I just can't. I can't knock myself out with an injury at 42. I just can't. I can't tear my ACL like trying it out. You know what I mean? It just feels like it would set me back quite a lot mentally and physically. The inner tube slopes. You'll get the same thrill. You know, the same wind in your face. It's true. That is true. It's like being on a floaty being pulled behind a boat versus water skiing. Exactly, yeah. It's the same thing. Same smile. Just think about how dumb you'll feel. when you're sidelined for three months because you had to try the skiing the one time on the influencer trip. Oh, now we know. I don't know why. I don't know why I had to catch a stray on that, but I mean, damn. Because I'm not able to go. Has nothing to do with Chris. This is just me working out my internal demons. Well, actually, well, speaking of those demons, Archie, you're caffeinated AF. You're talking a lot. Jeff, maybe a little bit more of the chill one. Archie, what do you do at the end of the night to finally make your brain stop running? I smoke weed. I smoke weed. How much are you smoking, bro? I knew, yeah. That's not where I was going at all. That slight pause was him deciding in a microsecond of office. Am I running for office or am I not running for office? No, I smoke weed. It's done now. I feel like in the future, it will not be a scarlet letter for a candidate of office to have a little marijuana once it's fully legal. Who cares? I agree. I agree with that. I mean, I think we've...

It used to be the thing that, like, because PlayLab used to be Jeff and I for only us for so long that we never turned off. So we would go home and just continue to work or we would stay at the studio late. And that's how school was, too, when it was all kind of founded. Sounds just like how long gone, bro. I get it. I get it, bro. Can't turn off. What are we supposed to do? We can't turn off. You can't. It is a problem. It is a problem. So all this is to say, as a marijuana addict, you have to keep smoking through the work process? Is that where you're going? Yeah. Okay. It's a light hit. It's a light hit, Jason. It's like I'm a lightweight. No, I can't do that. I'd get too paranoid. For me, it's like I had to find... something that wasn't play lab creatively because i still want to make things right so music has it was always my thing and now it's become really my thing at night and in the morning so you put you put your you put your kid to bed and you put on the beats pro studio and get to fucking work yes i mean jason was absolutely correct in his diagnosis it's ableton live but Yeah, no, I go in. We have a home studio, and I go in. I log a lot of hours, and I spend a lot of time doing it, and that helps. It honestly just helps. Well, we got a plan. Are we putting out a double album, or is this just for you? Yeah, there's a record. Beautiful PlayLab Incorporated is working on the release as we speak. It's going to be self-released, actually, through PlayLab. Actually, probably will be, actually, at this point. You put out an album. And then you finished an album. It's been recorded and mixed and mastered. And then the company that you owned pitched you as a client who's also being paid by you to here's how I see your album rolling out through my vision on your company. I did cry. What was that like? It was inception. You cried. Yeah, that's Jeff. Jeff spoke. Jeff spoke in a British accent, pretended to be my manager in the meeting, which is amazing. That's true. That's true. Good. I'm glad I didn't have to ask for a little taste of that. I never have to ask. He's on cue. He's on cue. You never have to ask. Jeff, what are you doing, bro? This motherfucker's got all these hobbies. What the fuck are you doing? Yeah, Jeff's like, do I have to be in this meeting? I don't do fucking Ableton bullshit. I operate in a different wavelength.

So I'm going home. I'm watching movies. Okay. Yeah. Are the movies good or are the movies bad, Jeff? You can go to my letterbox and check it out. You can see what I'm thinking about. Don't do not. You know I'm not going to your letterbox. I know I'm not going to your letterbox. No, I don't do reviews. I don't do reviews. I just put my stars. It's literally just to remember what I'm watching. The movies are good. The movies are bad. I watch all likes of movies. I go to movies by myself. I like to go. That's my hobby. It sounds like you might want to direct one day. Is that fair to say? Sure, yeah. Tom Ford? Definitely a goal of PlayLab. We definitely have many goals that we haven't reached yet. That's on them for sure. I mean, I think that's very reasonable. I just see shit all the time where I'm like, this motherfucker directed a movie? Okay, shit. I guess if you get the money for it, you can do anything. I mean, there's that. But there's also just like... film is in a way the culmination of all these things we really really care about and love like the spatial things timing and music and we love like even with music videos we're working on with artists it's sort of we're writing treatments we're writing scripts we're writing these things and it's a really enjoyable process for us that it seems very natural but also like when we started and we we got an apartment together when we were 19 20 and Again, I was so naive that I didn't have like this wealth of knowledge of film, but Jeff did. And so we would sit there and watch so much stuff. And I was like, that's how like our taste formed together, because we realized what made each other laugh or cry or whatever. And you're seeing, oh, my God, like how did remember getting the first Bottle Rocket? Like we read this thing about how Wes Anderson and Owen Wilson were writing Bottle Rocket. And we're like, well, we can do that. Like ping pong back and forth. Bro, we're doing that for free every day in this house right now. What the fuck? Yeah, exactly. What the hell? Your life was a movie. You just had to write it down. Jeff, did you have like cool parents? Did somebody put you on to like film or were you like just figuring out yourself in the basement? No.

I mean, I wouldn't call them cool in the traditional sense. Is that a capital C cool? Maybe my dad was cool. My parents definitely didn't come from a creative background. They both weren't in the medical field. Yeah, my parents don't even listen to music. My dad drives to work in silence. You know what I'm saying? I really had to get it out the mud. Like this big dick style right there, baby. It really is. Music is beneath me. It's admirable. It really is. My dad liked these things. He appreciated these things. He's the one that put me onto it without knowing he was putting me onto it. He listened to his, but he liked his music. He liked architecture. He liked art, but he didn't think of it as something that you could do. You know what I mean? I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I always like to say, my parents never encouraged me to do anything, but they also never discouraged me to do anything that I wanted. And so when I had an interest early on, it was mainly through comics and cartoons and just being like, I want to be able to make those things and make something that made me feel the way that somebody else did. I just showed an interest in that. Then it was like, okay, take this art class. You want a book? Any book you want, you can have it. You want to watch that cartoon over and over? You want to watch that movie? Whatever that you're inspired by on repeat. How much Ren and Stimpy did you fucking watch? A lot of Doug. You are a Doug-ass motherfucker. You are a Doug-ass motherfucker. It was very sweet that your parents supported your autism, and I think that's really informed the future of your career, bro. We've got to support more autism. I agree. They just encouraged it. As an OCD kid, it was weird because there were certain things I would get obsessed with, like watching. Honey, I Shrunk the Kids was a movie I can vividly remember. That night, my mom was working the night shift. My dad was like, you can pick any movie you want. I picked it. I just watched it over and over. Plus, I hit like the fifth time. I could hear my mom calls like she did when she worked at night shift just to check in. And my dad, I could hear him on the phone. He's like, hey, she's been watching it over and over. I think he's okay, but it must be the fifth time. Sweetheart, sweetheart, I think we might have a serial killer on our hands. Sweetheart, you might need to come home right now, actually. You might need to come home right now. Yeah, yeah, let's start the journal now.

But yeah. And you're like, shrink again, shrink again. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, encouraging in that way. So Jeff, you don't need to smoke weed at the end of the day to wind down. You just put on a Fellini film. You just throw on Clerks 2 and you're good to go. Is that what goes down? Yeah. I've got eight and a half on in the background. Available on Delta. Walk the dog, draw a little bit, put something on. on the on the tv damn bro you're you're you're living a fucking higher existence than my ass i'll tell you what like yeah bro i'm i'm i'm i'm in hell i'm watching awful awful reality tv i'm fucking yeah i'm just i'm polluting myself as much as i possibly can every day and you seem to live this kind of you're on a higher plane you're existing in a different way and also chris they probably have the same they probably sorry for interrupting they probably have the same if not more screen time than you chris it's just What you choose to do with that screen time is what makes a difference. Yes, my screen time is low quality. Low quality, sugary screen time. It's quantity over quality for you. Yes, exactly. All content has value. All content has value. Don't tell them that, Archie. Don't tell them that. Don't encourage me. You're an enabler is what we call it. I like the highs and lows. I like the highs and lows, too. Yeah, I like the highs and lows. I think Archie and I both do. I'm not only watching the whatever Criterion movies at night. I'm also going to make sense. Well, I think people that do that are narcs. Throw a little Zoolander 2 in there. Like, if you really only watch Criterion, you're like a fucking narc. Like, relax, dude. Relax. Oh, for sure. For sure. Like, get him to the Greek is good. You can sniff out the bullshit. We all agree. It's good. It birthed a lot of great talents, didn't it? Yeah, it birthed a lot. Some of my heroes actually were in that film. Okay, I wanted to talk, I guess, film and music, a good A-B split. Archie, the three bands, musicians, artists that informed. your album that you just put out. And then I want to know the three films that Jeff, uh, you know, visually has informed him and I'll let Jeff go second. Refuse shape of punk to come. Okay. Lifetime. Okay. Um, let's say this is not skewing Ableton live so far, but I'm, I'm, I'm into it. It skews. It like hit industrial through.

a very heavy trend resner nine inch nails kind of reference point but it is yeah there's 808s and shit in there for sure it's it's a strange you know the thing was like demoed from like 2020 to 2022 and then i was so new at this and working with my production partner dylan on this record it was like i'm learning for the first time how to actually produce music and work with people to achieve something so it's very proud of it but now we've like made or i've made so much more where i've like grown in my head of like what i'm like taking in information what do you really want to create and then go make it where this first one was like it was an experiment and it felt so it felt like as virgil always said like do it for the 17 year old version of yourself it's like stuck in my head where like we when i found ableton it was 2010 jeff and i were like just getting going with playlab And we were in Frankfurt, Germany doing this project. And everything just felt so new and fresh. And somebody taught me Ableton, my friend Ragnar. That's a name. Yeah, Ragnar Mar Nicholson. Damn, that's a legend right there. He is a legend. But it was like Adobe Illustrator for me. And I was like, oh, I get this. And now I'm just going to play and play and play and play. But it was like. Oh, don't take it seriously. Like PlayLab is this thing that is taking up all your time. And I think in 2020, it was very much like, well, you're sitting there, you're locked in. And it was like, well, everybody has that story. But then I was like, well, let me just see if I... can devote a little bit more attention to it at night. More time. Yeah. And then it just felt so... I'm in a Zoom full of motherfuckers that know how to use computer programs. I got to tell you, I'm feeling left out. Feeling left out. There's time. Archie, are you doing the thing where you're buying rare boutique analog synthesizer outboard gear? No. Okay. That's good. You have a child. You got to put it through college. I'm very basic. It's a dark path. Exactly. Okay, last question. It really truly is a dark path. Last question then. I want to know your three films, Jeff. Archie, if the record comes out, the graphic design, the rollout is amazing, the tour visuals are fantastic, the record goes platinum, can you promise now that you'll quit the agency and pursue music full-time? 100%. Honestly, it's the only goal. I totally get it. I totally get it. Understood. All right, Jeff, three films.

Okay. I had the benefit of Archie going first, so I was writing it down as we were talking. That's why. I knew you needed that cushion, sweetheart. I appreciate it. Thank you for looking out for me. Beauty and the Beast. I'm going to say that one was one of those as a kid. I felt part of my brain just open up when the inanimate objects became characters. Oh, shit, bro. Oh, okay. When that candle started talking. Dude, the candle starts talking and gets a little flirty. I was like, wait, this is interesting. Everything around me. Bro, candles can fuck too? Damn. I love cinema. Willy Wonka. I always do that one just because, again. Classique. Chalamet version or Gene Wilder? No, no, the OG. I was against watching the Chalamet version, and then I did recently on a play, and I was like, okay, not so bad. I appreciate that he took it to a different path than trying to remake the original. But the OG just. The music, the wonder. And then, as Archie mentioned, Bottle Rocket. I think that was one where just seeing the sense of humor, the style that was put throughout everything, it was something I was like, oh. I like the range. I like the range here. There's a lot of range here. I'm trying to go high and low. I think for people our age who are paying attention to things, Bottle Rocket came out a very formative year in our lives where you're like, oh, yeah, you can do this with films, and they probably made it. with a budget that I could probably make, scrounge together 50 grand and do it kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. If you watch the original black and white short film that launched it and then watch the full-color one. Or have it on Blu-ray. Just kidding. You can probably watch it on Criterion. You can just see the evolution of how someone was thinking and how they developed that. you know, creating a story and building this world for it and filming it. And then eventually, you know, he gets like more bag and he starts throwing things like the real tenant bottles. We could be like, I can control everything. Maybe now that's become kind of like the MO, but yeah, I don't rock. It was just like, you know, the first stroke of genius. Yeah. When they still had that youthful life in them and we're still making good stuff. I mean, I, you know, the Wilson brothers, they're cool, but what, you know,

And then Wes Anderson, what's he doing nowadays? I think he constantly makes one of those movies that costs an absolute fortune because it's Tweed the fuck out. Yeah. And then it comes out, and it probably does just fine. Not a Tweed. It probably does just fine. You guys did that Justin Timberlake thing that was a little kind of Wes Anderson model-esque. You didn't get to cease and desist or anything for that? All clear? No cease and desist. Yeah, no cease and desist. But honestly, if that was the way to meet somebody like Wes Anderson, we'll do it again. I would love to get sued by Wes Anderson so he could finally break bread. Yeah, it's a business plan that works. We do it all the time. That's how we've secured some of our greatest clients is them paying us to shut up. Yeah, we're negging them until they pay us. That's kind of our whole game plan here. Yeah, kind of like the mafia. Yeah, yeah, I listened to you on a couple other podcasts, Archie, in preparation, and I noticed the thing that stuck out to me is you, you know, we're on the 20th anniversary of PlayLab, but you sort of spoke in these linear timelines like we have 60 years left of PlayLab. And you said it a couple times, and I was like, does this guy have one of those brains where, like, Everything is on a plan. There's a clock, and we're on a 100-year linear timeline. That's a good idea. We should definitely get that clock. It's counting down. Yeah, we're going to have to actually do that now. Yeah, the countdown's on. Throw a doomsday clock in the office downtown. Good idea. This is when the end of days will come. But honestly, are you thinking on a linear 100-year timeline where you have a game plan and goals and things you want to achieve? Yeah, 100%. I could cry thinking about it and I won't because then you'll make fun of me. But I, you know, I was just home with my parents and I was like, I'm just driving through Virginia Beach and I was like, I'm happy, you know. And I think that, you know, I'm very lucky to have met Jeff. I'm very lucky to be doing all of this. And all I want to do is do it for as long as I can. It is really what it is. And I want to get better at it. And I want it to be a safe and fun place for people to be to try things.

So, yeah, I think about it that way. And back to the Celsius of it all is, you know, when we were starting, there was no choice but to have a fuck ton of energy where you're like, all right, we can do anything. We can do anything. And that was me. It was like a ball of energy and just spending lots of time with Jeff figuring these things out. And Jeff gave great advice early on because I had this phrase, which was we got to do everything all the time. And Jeff was like, no, it's more like anything over time. And that's Jeff's. which is like Jeff flipped it and reversed it. He did flip it and reverse it on that one. Thank you. Shout out Portsmouth, Virginia. It's like sustainability and health and slowing down and trying to get good at something and try to figure out and that getting good at something is not even about projects or disciplines. It's about getting good at the studio, which is the biggest project is how does this become a better place and environment and thing. And so, yeah, I think that we don't have a goal. So except for to continue to be interested in things and see if we can do them with people that we care about. And then, yeah, if it's 60 more years, however long we can be alive, that would be the best story, you know, that I could imagine for myself. If you make it 60 more years, downtown L.A. might finally be nice. There's a chance. There's a chance that you guys kind of see it through. I was in the arts district of downtown. This is not a joke, but. It is nicer than Hollywood now by tenfold. I will say, you know, 60 years is how long it takes to wait in line tomorrow, so I don't do that. Okay, well, two questions. What do you think you guys are really going to be able to accomplish creatively when you're 94 years old? And then is there a specific thing that is the last thing that you do before you die? Is there a piece de resistance? Hopefully the answer is yes, and hopefully you won't tell it to me and keep it a secret. I have the answer to the second one, but I will keep to see you. Okay. Well, now you can tell me if you want now. But what do you think you're going to be doing when you're on your 99? I mean, I think as long as our brains are still working, we'll be able to have a conversation and work with other people to see it through, whatever that might be. Same shit, bro. Same shit, just old.

Same shit with a little bit more wisdom, hopefully. Yeah, wisdom's a nicer way to put it. Okay, so same thing you're going to do today, but you'll be wearing a diaper. Got it. Exactly, exactly. Or two. Or two. Yeah, we're going to have to double up. All right, thank you guys. Thank you guys for joining us. It was a pleasure. Archie and Jeff, PlayLab Incorporated. Thank you both. When's the book coming out? Where's the monograph, guys? Oh, that's a good question. That's a great question. Honestly, I feel like that's a – I just saw they just announced, like, the Jonathan Anderson Loewe 10-year. book and it's beautiful but I'm just like you guys should definitely you guys definitely need a book even if it's just for clients as a gift you know we joke about it if that comes out of this you'll get you'll get a kickback okay I love a kickback there's several people from publishing big publishing listening to this show if you ever want to explore the audio space just give me a call as well fellas okay no thank you guys so much I'd love to ideate with you good to see you and uh we'll see you soon all right thank you later fellas thanks bye Is it worth it? Let me work it. I put my thing down, flip it and reverse it.