340. - Julia Cumming of Sunflower Bean

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts. or watch on YouTube. I'm killing it, bitch. How long gone? I'm Chris Black, the Micro Machine Man, here with DJ Them Jeans, a.k.a. Jason Stewart, a.k.a. Big Bird. How you feeling? Micro Machine Man, One Minute Man, whatever you want to call, Chris. I'm here. I'm chilling. I just got back from a nice little workout, made a nice little smoothie. Let's go. I put a little protein powder mixed with the peanut butter in the smoothie today. I went for chunky peanut butter, just a straight-up regular one. No almond butter. Almond butter's done. Are you saying that almond butter is for pussies? That's the vibe I'm getting from you. No, no, no. Not for pussies. It's just not cool anymore. It's just, we're going back to basics. There's so many things where you're like, oh, have you tried kale salads before? And they're like, oh, this is pretty good. But, like, lettuce was good, too. So I'm going back to a bagged chopped romaine from Ralph's. We don't have to. I'm not saying we have to do that. I'm just saying salad has existed for decades or hundreds of years. I see. Being just fine with green. Please don't do 15 minutes on the history of salad. I can't take it. Charles S. Salad III back in 1791 obviously is the forefather of the food that we know and love as salad today. But nobody ate salad with kale until...

You know, 10 years ago. No, I think people are kind of waking up the same way. People are just like, you know, frozen yogurt is cool, but like ice cream better. You know, this this great Wall Street Journal article today by a former guest in front of the show, Lane Florsheim, about how no one can go to a restaurant. The best part of that is that everybody's. killing themselves to go to a restaurant to eat a piece of salmon and some spinach and some fries. You know what I mean? Well, not everyone, mainly just you. No, but the restaurants in question, okay, well, we could do the Italian version of that if you want to talk about Carbone, but it's the same idea. I didn't read the article, but is the point... The best part of the article is Eric Repair being like, you just have to become a regular. It's like, bitch, shut the fuck up. Like, sure, I know that, but like... I think the 15 tables you hold for regulars that 99.9% of people, unfortunately, are not in the tax bracket to be a regular at your establishment, which is fine. I love gatekeeping, so that's not a problem for me. So that's kind of like somebody complaining that, hey, I really want to go to this nightclub. And they're like, well, you can't really get in because you're not cool or famous enough. Exactly. But just buy a bottle. Yeah, exactly. And they're like, well, I don't have $3,500 to blow on a bottle of Tito's. And they're like, well, just give us a call when you do. I don't really know why we're still talking. That's the thing is that I love it, but I do think that it's like a little bit of, yeah, it's a good story because it's something that obviously we talk about all the time. In L.A. at least, the clamoring for reservations is also for a simple kind of food. No one's killing themselves to eat tweezer food in 2022 is what I'm trying to say, Jason. Well, there are people who are doing that, but I think you're right. To begin with, the restaurants like the Michelin tweezer food places here in L.A. Obviously, it's not super easy to get a table there, but it's much easier to get a table there than some jack-off martini and steak frites kind of spot. Exactly. So the world is ending, and all we want to do is sit down at 10 p.m. for some fries. I guess it's the simple things in life.

I'm Jason. We're in sicko mode getting ready for our big trip. We haven't had a show in a while, so it's a little bit, you know, we're getting our sea legs back. I don't know how you're feeling. I'm feeling a little stretched. I'm feeling, I mean, I'm feeling okay. I haven't had time to really think about it, but I've been putting some notes together, you know, working on my Canadian material. I want to make sure that we do a good job for our ticket paying customers and make sure they get a good value. And I know that you feel the same way, Chris. That makes one of us. I mean. I've got enough Toronto material saved up to do two hours by myself. Thank God I don't have to do that. So I'll be able to lean on you. Yeah, you can lean on me. Yeah, but we touched down. We have a Juno party to go to. What is that? The Junos. Like the awards? Yeah, the Grammys. Thanks to a friend of the show, Norman Wong, we have an invite to some sort of Junos pre-party. Oh, shit. So hopefully I'll finally get to meet Feist. Is she the only one who gets awards? I believe it's Her, Drake, Bieber, kind of the top three. And then maybe Majeed Jordan if they run out of other people. But yeah, I'm prepped. I mean, the merch is being delivered today. We have a nice Toronto exclusive for our ticket purchasers. I think we might even have a – luckily, a friend of the show is in Toronto on some other business. I think he might join us. Let's just say we have a stacked lineup full of straight white men ready to come into your town, Toronto. That's right. Well, luckily, Toronto is – They're ready for that, I think. Speaking of the opposite of that, what's going on with my dear friend Young Thug? It looks like Thug is going to be doing some RICO time thanks to the good people of Fulton County. I had heard the term RICO before, but I never really investigated it until yesterday, and now I know what it means. I feel like it has a strong tie with Atlanta. I feel like Atlanta people have kind of... suffered the wrath of the rico charge is that true or am i making that up i think a lot of i think that a lot of people have suffered the wrath of the rico charge i think that we only hear about it when it's rappers you know what i mean so maybe that's why it feels like atlanta has suffered more yeah i hear gun is going to get off friend of the show jeff hendrickson was like where's we got ears to the streets where's robert kardashian when we need him

Damn, too soon. I don't know who's going to represent. I'm sure YSL has some great in-house attorneys that can kind of get these guys out of this stuff. Different YSL. Not Hedy Slaman. We're talking about young stoner life. Exactly. Just to clear the record for our listeners. We have a bunch of different... style of listeners. So some might have thought that was something else. Thanks for clarifying. Our guest today was was Hedy's muse. Yes. And I am, of course, Mr. Pikachu himself. Yeah, he's written he's written a lot of songs about two muses, one pod. We'll see how it shakes out. This is two silverbacks, one cage. So, I mean, I don't know, man. I don't think it bodes well. I mean, from what I understand from our legal analyst, how long gone legal analyst Decatur Dan, he's saying that Gunna is going to be fine, but Thug is probably going to have to do some time. Yeah. And I didn't mean to rhyme that. You know, this is a rap thing. I apologize. This is a rap thing, and that did not fall on deaf ears, Chris. Well done. But I think the Rico... If our listeners are also a little in the dark, what that means exactly, because everyone on Twitter seems to just be saying the word Rico as if it's a thing that we all know and talk about. It is funny that that's how it works. This is something that comes up once every five years when someone goes to prison. The same way when COVID is invented by Bill Gates, we all have become masters of viral infection, spreading data analysis and everything like that. We all know exactly what Rico charges. Who's the Dr. Fauci of Rico charges? DJ Academics. We got to get DJ Academics on the podcast. He should be our legal analyst. It'll be a cold day in hell when I align personally with PAC, as they say. Because he's popular and good at his job? Fucking hater? You know who else is? Fauci.

You like him? No. I mean, Academics has a bigger Twitch, so that's kind of why I like him more. And he dresses cooler. You're talking about the video streaming platform and not like a nervous tick? That's right. I bet at this point Fauci has a nervous tick from all the people that are after him. Okay. True social ass. Let's go. Get in. But yeah, so the Rico was invented, I believe, to kind of get mafia people, organized crime folks who kind of... hide behind the fall guys and have somebody else take the case for them. You know, you're going to do a bid for fat Tony. And then when, you know, when you get out, he'll make sure that, you know, he'll make good. Make sure your grandma is all set up. Make sure your kids go to college, all that stuff. And they say, no, no, no. Even if skinny Tony was just, you know, on the group chat, he's going to get. The same murder charge that the trigger man will get. Not skinny Tony. So there's some unfairness and some fairness to the Rico thing. It seems like it was a reaction to people who were able to sort of skirt the law for a long time. But it's also a law that can be easily abused. by the police have you been doing have you been doing your little kim kardashian legal studying you know i did the same amount of work that kim is doing which is i checked out black twitter for 11 minutes and i have a pretty good idea of what things are doing and how things are going jason jason once again is doing the work uh his he's listening and he's doing the work we do have a guest today and i can't wait to see what her take on all this is. I'm sure she's gone to law school. You know, in her earlier years, she was a political activist, you know, breaking bread with some faves of yours like AOC and some other people. So I know you guys will be excited to get into that. You mean AOC served her a Negroni at a bar? Or you mean like during that era of her life? Different breaking bread. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Well... Yeah, our guest today is Julia Cumming, who is the front woman and songwriter of a band called Sunflower Bean. The new album, Head Full of Sugar, came out last week. It's quite good. I've had it for a while, and it is available for streaming everywhere.

And Julie and I actually met a while back at the famed Azalea Banks vegan dinner party. So I can't wait. I can't wait to rehash that and ask why the fuck she was there, because I know that she probably would ask the same of me. Yeah, I mean, I was that was probably the one activation of 2021 that I was the most. jealous of it's given us so much material and and and talking points you know for a full year this might be the closing chapter but who knows it could rear its ugly head again anytime i don't know what to expect i'm ready for it i'm ready for azalea to step on me queen i'm ready for azalea to um whatever that people say in those situations where they want you to have somebody harm you physically in a sexual manner that's kind of where i'm at with with a b don't worry we'll get we'll get some a fan we'll buy a fan a pair of uh manolos at holt renfrew in yorkville and they can come step on you on stage it won't be a problem to find somebody it's not the same okay i understand all right let's i need azalea to uh humiliate me sexually not some fucking canadian graphic designer look i don't know what you're into you know a lot of graphic designer you know more i can't be topped by a bottom you fucking idiot you know you know more designers than you do azalea banks so i mean i just i was just hedging my back for now chris for now all right let's let's talk to let's talk to julia before this goes south i masturbate for the job i want not for the job i have let's pay some bills all right this episode of how long gone is brought to you by quince jason attempts are warming up It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated.

but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone. It was brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you.

How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code how long taskers book up faster, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code how long with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. Julia, thank you for joining us on How Long Gone. I know it's a stressful day for you. I'm glad that you could fit us into your extremely busy promotional schedule. Oh, my God. So it's press day over there in the bean zone? Is that what's going on? It's a press day and rehearsal day because we're playing Webster Hall on Thursday. I'm from the East Village, Alphabet City. I've played Webster Hall once before opening first of three. So it's kind of like a lifetime dream. And, you know, we're sort of... against the wall trying to get all of it done, but that's how great things happen, I think. What a wonderful attitude, Julia. I agree with you. I understand, and I'm glad to see that you're accomplishing your dreams, and hopefully somebody else is going to be kind of lugging that ampeg up the stairs for you. The thing is that it's always me. It's always us. I'm not really sure what the perception is of what we do or where we're at, but

I carry amps every single day of my life. Well, I think if you don't really have – you guys are like a real band, and you don't have kind of industry plant vibes. No. Despite your previous career. So I think when you have industry plant vibes, you can be playing your first show, and people assume that you're not carrying even a microphone. You just show up, and Daddy has it all set up. You guys don't have that, but at some point – you know, this new album is great and you guys are only going to grow more and more. And it's only a short matter of time until you'll have a very nice person carrying all of your gear for you. You know, I think with music and just like so many of these things, it's so humbling, at least indie music, because it's often so embarrassing and it's so regional, you know? How's your career going, Julia? It's actually deeply embarrassing. It could be worse, but no, you mean that when you show up to play a show on a Tuesday night in Raleigh, it's not going to be New York. I mean, I've been playing music in bands and in the city. I've played every weird, strange situation and spot that you can imagine, but I remember we... It was the first time we headlined Bowery Ballroom and it was like one of the greatest nights of my life. And the next night we were booked to play at like Dartmouth at a like a frat house. But it was maybe for like it was for like, you know, fifteen hundred bucks. So we were like super excited. We were like, oh, my God, we played Bowery Ballroom. Now we're going to make fifteen hundred bucks. And, you know, just the night after that, we were in like this. fratty living room with the doors open and not one person in the entire house watched. Those Dartmouth boys, huh? Yeah, we actually stopped the set because it was just us and the engineer and there wasn't any reason to play. I think there was maybe a fight happened or some people were making out. Tyler was going to do a flip off the roof so you guys kind of got bumped. Yeah, that's...

That is exactly what happened. And I remember like holding on to that feeling because I was like, you know what? Literally one night you're on what you perceive to be the top. The next night you're literally in the trash. And that's just, you know, if you don't realize that, then you can't survive, you know, in this space. So being an indie musician is like being in a toxic relationship. Every night you're in a different city and you're being gaslit by the indie music world. Yes. They build you up, they break you down, and then they're like, you want another $1,500 to play a frat party? And you're like, yes. They're so hot. They're wearing all black. They might drive a motorcycle. And you're rocking up there and you're like, you know what, indie music industry, I could change him. You know, I would say being an indie musician does. feel like a toxic relationship a lot of the time. At least my relationship to it is toxic in the fact that I just won't quit. It's like, I really, I really should have at some point, but something, you know, I keep getting knocked down. I keep getting up. Well, I feel like, look, I feel like people want it from you. It's not like you're screaming into the void. You know what I mean? There's people at the shows. There's people like how long gone just clamoring to talk to you. You know what I mean? It's not like this is, it's not like this is all in vain, you know, because I've just been a part of it. I've seen so many different kinds of changes and like eras in, in the industry. The one that we're living in right now, which is the hyper-digital, 15-second clip content era, I would say it's my least favorite. We feel the exact same way, and we're almost twice your age probably. You're in your early, mid-20s or so, right? Yes. You weren't even old enough to experience the real.

life before that so like you know we have an agent who's like you guys need to do some tiktoks and we're like man we're we're 40 yeah our agent our agent told us to our agency told us to get on tiktok and i was just like no bro yeah and he didn't it seemed too psyched about that but he's like no at the conversion i'm like i'm sure all that's true i believe all of it is true I just can't care about that. I just can't do it. No. I just have to say no. Well, we hear a lot about the vibe shifts, and I think there was a vibe, because you mentioned the 15-second clip is the thing, and there was a vibe shift when it went from music video to visualizer. I think that was a big one. Totally. I will never know that era. And even as I've been through it, you're right. Music videos are less. powerful and useful than they've ever been unless unless it's something that was meant in every single way to go viral yes yes other otherwise it's you know it just has no weight yeah so i'm like uh exactly what they call a zillennial which is like i was born in in 1996 okay they say 96 and 97 is like the the zillennial years and i spent the first you know 10 years of my career trying to like fit in with millennials who like never just absolutely never like accepted me. We're sorry about that. All right. We apologize for our entire people, our people. We want to apologize to you directly now since we have you. No, you know, well, it's like when, when being started, you know, it was kind of like the exact end of like the blogosphere, you know, it was like the end of, of that kind of power because of this like TikTok algorithm. randomizer factor it's like all the power is in the people's hands but all the power is really in the algorithms hands i don't know i'm i feel like i'm right in this spot where if i leaned on my older tendencies i would try to

ignore the whole thing but because I'm right there you know I can't well look if you want some viral video ideas you know let us know I mean I you know I don't know unfortunately Drake and Future are doing the kind of medieval thing that's coming out soon so we're gonna have to kind of table that on our end but if you have any other ideas you know we're open to that and we'd love to help I have a good deepfake guy if you want to do a Kendrick kind of thing yeah yeah yeah if you want to do a deepfake thing We can call the South Park guys and kind of get them on the horn. I think at this point, anything goes, you know, maybe like some, you know, pies in the face or just literally anything. I like the idea of you getting all dressed up and looking super cool and just getting pied. I think that could really, that could really go somewhere. You know, with these TikToks, you have to have like eight things going at once. You would have to get pied with like weird makeup on and cleavage. and have weird music happening, and it would have to end in a weird place so that nobody understood it, so they need to watch it again. It's like it has to have boobs and humor and music and be like eight seconds. So you have been thinking about this, Julia. Yeah, you've done a lot of research. Oh, yeah. I mean, if the entire podcast industry was, if the only strategy was... go viral every minute i think that you would too it doesn't matter what it doesn't matter what age that's a good point that's a good that's a good yeah i guess that that's very interesting because we're in a we we create an art form or a media type that is is long form in a world where you know unless it's a marvel movie or you're not going you're not going to have a viral long form anything you know i mean maybe a book if you could consider a book going viral but and now you have like podcasts being booked at festivals that's right honey that's right i mean we we also sold out the bowery ballroom i know you sold you sold out bowery bar the festival thing is funny because we want to do more of it but but i don't think the promoters get it really and also i don't know if like i don't know who would be cool with us making fun of them because you know a lot of bands take themselves pretty seriously you know like

The Pitchfork crowd probably wouldn't like us too much. We could win them over. Let's say the Pitchfork crowd doesn't necessarily... They're not the most casual, open-minded kind of easy-going crew. It's not... They're not like the Parrot Heads or a Fish concert or something like that. I wouldn't say it's always... I wouldn't say that it's a good vibes all the time kind of attitude. These are words being told by someone who may have received a Pitchfork review at some point in her life. Is that correct or no? I have. I've received a few. I'm praying that you did better than Jack Harlow, who today got a 2.9. So just tell us that you did better than that. There is justice in the world. I have done better than that. But, you know, I do think, I mean, I'm saying so much stuff right now. I don't even care. We're only 12 minutes in, sweetheart. I know. I know. We're going to go there. I honestly think. That getting a really bad score is really awesome. That means that you're like doing something. You know what I mean? I think the worst thing that can happen is you get like middled out or ignored. Yeah, never be a tweener. I also think that the issue with a negative review is that they're more fun to write. I mean, I think music journalism, it's in such a tough spot because it's like the whole, all the finances of the entire industry imploded and the product became free. So writing about it just isn't financially, you know, it's not a great field necessarily. So I feel like there's really kind of only a few of these like amazing writers left that like have a great year and also like have an open mind to like really see something. It's easy to like, hey, you know, a kid out of college, nothing to write a slam piece, you know, because they want to write the piece and they, you know, they want to get it on their website or whatever. I don't know. If you're the kind of person who does stuff and makes stuff, you can't think about how every single person is going to feel about it that much. Absolutely. Do you subscribe to the Post and Ghost lifestyle?

You do what you have to do, and then you leave, and you don't look at the comments or try to interact with people? No, I look at the comments. I see a lot of what people say, and the overwhelming majority, especially some Tharbing fans, are so nice. Julia, my fans are also so nice. TJ Heads, you guys rock. You guys are my number one sweeties. Chris, not so much. Is that what I'm getting from you? I guess a band is different because it's like they... They're like, I don't know. It's like more exciting. They want to see you. It's a whole different thing, I think. But overall, you're saying it's positive. The overwhelming majority of people that interact with us, it's very positive. And if it's not positive, I just, you know, I truly don't care. I mean, maybe if I was. Good, good, good, good. Very good. I think maybe if I was getting like hundreds of like horrible messages at a time, I think it would be worse. You know, maybe I would care then, but, you know, but Sunflower Bean fans truly are extremely wholesome. And I think because we've, you know, especially like 22 and Blue, when we put that out, I was 22 and it had a lot of that kind of like young adult coming into your coming into yourself kind of thing. And so for a lot of for a lot of people and a lot of girls, especially they really connected with that. And like that's, you know, getting to be a part of the fabric of like people. people's lives and kind of soundtrack that is super cool and just you know the fact that it's getting to i care about how people feel about the music i don't care about what writers who need credits want to say about it because we don't fit or I don't fit into a particular agenda or trend that's being pushed. Amen, sister. Julie has lived a lot of life, I feel like. I feel like you're a little bit wise beyond your years. I think she did live a lot of life already, that's why. Life keeps going and I don't know what it's going to hold. I'm kind of scared. Well, I mean, so you said you're born in 96. How old were you?

when you were having lunch with Sleman at American Rag? I was 18 when I started working with them. Shit. Were you less wise beyond your years at that age? Well, so I just always wanted to be in band since I was like four years old. I just always, like I had this weird kind of like feeling that that was what... i should do and the second that somebody asked me to be in a band i joined it even though i had never written a song didn't know if i could sing i had no you know like i had no inclination i wasn't like someone who was taught to do it my parents just hoped that i would like be like vaguely normal and like semi-happy That's the name of your book. So, Bull, your parents were musicians too, right? Yeah, they're musicians. And they're like, don't do this. Don't do this. I mean, they were like in bands, but they didn't do it as their job. They're just very passionate, passionate listeners and fans and players. And, you know, we talked about songwriting and stuff a lot. And we would just have music on a lot and kind of obsess over it. And so obsessing over it. You supported the arts in the Cumming household. Yeah. so I joined my first band at 13 and, um, you know, that was when I did, you know, we would do like little photo shoots. It was like a, it was like a super weird kind of psychedelic art project almost. And we were really about kids making art, which is kind of a weird thing. And girls making art. Kids should not make art. I know. I know. Right. You live and you learn. Let's not get them started down the wrong path. Let's not start that early. That's bad. That's bad stuff. With the modeling stuff, it was never that kind of thing where I feel like you hear these other stories of girls who were stunningly beautiful and swept off the street and got signed. I was sort of like...

hustling my ass around new york trying to get someone to sign me because i thought that that was a way that i could do music you know i saw other people around me do it so i did i did catalog modeling you know front side back just kind of i you know i did like 20 an hour stuff and you know and then when the ysl thing happened that that was like that that was a more sweeping off your feet moment but it definitely wasn't like um super casual and it wasn't it wasn't easy it was definitely like part of how i saw being an artist in new york i thought that that would help me and then you know over the years it has become something that like it is it is an art form and it is like a kind of like a one person performance to the camera absolutely i agree especially the way he does it i feel like that's like maybe more so than other people yeah even when you're a natural it's still very difficult to do it requires a lot of talent and skill even though i i kind of saw it as as as part of this thing i also like i really never liked it when people who were in modeling and in fashion like talk shit about it or pretended they didn't want to be there You know, and just kind of like kind of had that weird attitude where it's like, yeah, whatever. This is all. And I was like, you know, like they're above it all. Yeah. That always makes me crazy. I've had so many friends who were like male models and they're like embarrassed about it. Yeah. Bro, what's the problem here? Yeah. Like what's the what's the I don't I don't understand what the downside is here. Yeah. It's like just be grateful for this moment in your life. And like, yeah, one thing I'm one thing I'm super grateful for is like, yeah, being around Hedy. I got to shoot with. Steven Mizell and worked with Pat McGrath a bunch. And I've just like, I've had the chance to like be around literally like masters in their field. Yeah. That's as good as it, that's as good as it gets. Like that's like, yeah, it gets, it's rare. Yeah. And when you're 18 years old and you get to see creative people who are like so powerful and free and like good at what they do, like just that, it's kind of like a masterclass in being a creative person. So, you know, yeah, I, I'm so like,

I'm so grateful for my experiences in fashion. And I think I'm a lucky one because I always, you know, had other stuff that I was working on. Yeah. You had something else to do. You didn't just want the free black clothes. You know what I mean? You were able to, you had, you had, you had an exit strategy, you know, modeling, especially can be, it can be super hard on the girls and it can be super dangerous. And I think because I, I had this other stuff, you know, it's like, people weren't going to try to put me in danger, I think, because they thought that I would say something or had like more of a platform, you know? So, so it's hard for me to say like, you had, yeah, yeah, you had an outlet. Modeling is perfect. And, you know, when it's for a lot of girls who are making money to send back home and do stuff like that, it's a very, very different story. But, you know, there are groups like the Model Alliance and even like what Diet Prada does, you know, like the path, the shift in the past, like five years towards. creativity and individuality and body positivity and all this stuff is like it's a it's a real change i've been like shooting again and the way that people treat me or treat models now you feel you feel you feel a difference oh my god it's like night and day it is like it is a it's like a almost a different thing completely an awakening i have my bones to pick with diet prada for other reasons but i think that the i think that whether it's for the right reason or the wrong reason people are people are like doing doing the right thing because they're afraid. Totally. You know what I mean? Either they're, I think it's, I think it's rare that someone, someone's eyes have been open and they've made like a big shift, but I think they're like, I have to do this the right way because it's not worth my life ending. You know what I mean? And so it's better for everybody. Totally. And, and you know, a lot of these, the ways that these changes happen are, you know, pretty often imperfect, but you know, for many of the first years of my career, You know, I feel like I felt very, you know, felt very separated from my body. You know, there was like, there's the my body that changed in the corner and was naked and everybody looked at, there wasn't even a place to change. And, you know, you throw this on and everybody sees you and you just, there was like, you know, there was that and then there was me.

And now, you know, everybody cares. Everybody, you know, they treat you like a person. It is very different. You're not looked at like a hanger or, you know, a mannequin. Yeah. A little more humanized. Yeah. That makes sense. Was there like a thing that happened or is it just a gradual thing over the last couple of years? I think it's a really gradual thing that has been like. fought for by a lot of different creatives and fashion and, you know, definitely by social media and more people having voices. And I think, you know, also by, by a lot of, you know, creating like visibility for different models. And, you know, I think it actually has really, you know, shifted people's tastes, you know, people don't just want to see just a pretty face, you know, they want a story they want. they want an individual because they can, that's more relatable. And I think that that shift is really good. And like, it's, it's weird when I started modeling, that was like kind of the very end, like within those seasons was when people started having all these conversations about, look, like the runways are too white. And that was a hundred percent that needed to change. And it had to be changed through a lot of. a lot of talking and a lot of visibility on that issue. Have you noticed there's just, there's a lot more women working on set now as well, or was it always kind of well-balanced? I mean, there's a lot of women. I feel like there's always been women working in fashion. There's it's, I feel like there's in music. I think that's still that we still have a long ways to go there, but there's a lot of great gals in fashion. Great gals. I couldn't agree more. And Jason doesn't like to change in public either. So I'm glad that you kind of brought that up. I'll do it, but I don't love it. He's feeling represented right now, and I think that's important for him. It depends on the designer. Yeah, of course. If it's something he feels good in and sexy in, it's not a problem for him. I've seen him suffer through some stuff in our time together. It hasn't been great. I had a question about the band name. Is there a difference between a sunflower?

bean and a sunflower seed? A sunflower bean doesn't exist. I have to honestly say that I did join the band. I didn't name the band. Oh, so you have some notes? I have some notes. I don't know if I would have picked it, but what I can say is the first time that Nick and I really spoke, I think we were... Do you remember that bar, Alaska? off morgan oh yes yes yes i i didn't go there but i'm familiar yeah that's all one can say about that it was i mean you know it was like a pitch black room where like you know dreams went to die you know so so a good place to do coke and all the bad things that come along with it you know i mean it was it was so funny in there because it was pitch black and i remember there was like You know, there was picture frames with nothing in them, like a black room with a picture frame. Damn, damn. On a black wall. Not great. It feels like one of those restaurants where all the servers are blind and it's in pitch black and they got to go ninja mode. Yeah. But you know what? I absolutely loved Alaska and I feel like I can talk shit about it because. I went there a lot and a lot of, you know, but, um, but I think Nick and I, I think we, either we were in there or we tried to get in there and couldn't get in there. Cause we were like 17 and he was maybe 18. And, um, as I was leaving, it was like the first time we talked, he was like, by the way, I'm starting this band. It's called sunflower bean. And I had this feeling inside of me where I was like, Oh fuck. I'm going to join this band and it's going to become my whole life. Really? I knew it. It was love at first sight. So what kind of Molly was this? I was completely sober. Oh, come on. In this moment in time. Okay, so you've always had kind of this spiritual musical connection. You said like when you're four, you're like, I just know I'm going to be in a band, whatever it is. I don't know why. I don't know how, but that's just, it shall be.

Not a lot of people have that. It's a very kind of sink or swim sort of like jump in and see what happens mentality that. has absolutely caused as much harm in my life as it's caused positive experiences. The fuck around and find out mentality, you did find out a couple things that weren't great. Yeah, I would not recommend it. But I think if you are this way, that there's not that much you can do about it besides try to generally get more sensical and logical as time goes on. But, you know, I have to try to be... true to my instincts and i mean most of my life has just been thinking of stuff and trying to do it and seeing what happens and it's it's been a really wild journey that i don't you know i don't want to get off but but that's also isn't that kind of what everyone has to go like every band every actor every whatever you do has to go through just kind of years of shit and hard work and humiliation and all those things because when you when you know when it finally hits and you're selling out shows and you're doing what you love for a living then it's just that much sweeter yeah well i feel like that's kind of what we were saying in the beginning you know it's like if you if you don't love the shit too then you're not cut out for it you know like if you if you can't find a way to love Carrying amps and playing tiny towns and being embarrassed. If you can't find a relationship to it, then there's no reason for you to do it. But if you can, then you're probably one of the people crazy enough. to do it. You know, I feel the same way about the standup community as well. Julie, I'm sure you do too. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, the standup community is like, I feel like that would be the, like one of the hardest things ever. I can't even imagine. Talk about being embarrassed. Yeah. You know, that's really top, top embarrassment. I, I want to talk to you. I want to talk to you about the East village since you're an East village queen and I live there and, and still live there like, you know, for,

for 15, 14 years or something at this point. I just want to know what your haunts are. Like, what are your number ones? You know what I mean? I want you to, I feel like you might know some shit that I don't know. Dry cleaners, film developing spots, you know, all the shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the important stuff. All the important stuff. I mean, yeah, when I was growing up, it was very different than it is now. In 2008, it kind of became like this. like yuppie haven i guess now now you're speaking my language you know so yeah this sounds this sounds right up my alley a lot of day trader dick up in there i would say more like just graduated from nyu but still kind of want to be in a dorm sort of like beer parties Beer parties. No, sure. Do you guys know any good beer parties tonight? Yeah. I like Julia. You sound like a cop. I heard there's a beer party happening over here. You guys, are you guys, can I come? Hopefully the word, the term beer parties can encapsulate what you would imagine, like the lamest group of people ever. Oh, it does. You know, like just sort of like, and side town is like, so like. kind of cavernous so you can hear all of their like lame screams like just like ricocheting off all the buildings They're so excited to be in New York, and they feel like they're really doing something in these buildings. I'm just like a crotchety old. You're a Fran Leibowitz-looking motherfucker, aren't you? Yeah, Fran Leibowitz in Skytown over here with a guitar. Oh, my God. Get off my lawn, you kids. Exactly. They throw one of their beer pong balls into your yard, and you say, I'm keeping it. I'm keeping it, Tyler. Yeah, I would, and I do. And you know what I will say? Here's what really being, I feel like a New Yorker is, or being in the East Village, I look like shit 90% of the time. If you see me from the hours of 8 p.m. or, I mean, no, like, 8 a.m. to 4 p.m., if you see me, like, you did not see me. Okay. That wasn't me. Okay. Like, that wasn't there, because usually I have, like, crazy hair, whatever sunglasses I could find, like.

Pajama pants. I'm going to get coffee. I might be going to McDonald's. I don't want to be seen. Just a nasty motherfucker. You don't give a shit. And then, you know, it's just funny because everyone's like, what's your style? And I'm like, I'm homeless until I have to be seen by somebody. It's either like shit or full on. It's like, I'm ready or I'm not. So do they let you into Equinox looking like that? Or how does this work? Do you have a grandfathered in past? Shout out to my friends at Equinox. No, I don't. I don't go to Equinox. My exercising is having stressed out phone calls and walking in the sty town circle for four and a half hours. Wow. Okay. Follow-up question. What's your brand of cigarette then? Camel Blue. Oh, she down bad. The blues. Well, you know why? Because when I first ever started smoking, I felt like I was too embarrassed to say Marlboro. Because I felt like I would fuck it up and then they wouldn't sell me the cigarette. So that's how I started smoking Camel Blues. Oh, you're like, what's the easiest cig to pronounce for a young person? For an underage person. Yeah. Marlboro's tough. Yeah. And lucky for you, Camel Blue, the official cigarette of people who kind of pace in a circle as they have conversations. Yeah. It's perfect. Worked out well. A little serendipity. Yeah, it's a pacing cigarette for sure. It goes fast. For the pacer in your family. What clubs were you going to in high school? In high school, I was going to, I mean, I was going everywhere, but a lot, I mean, mostly DIY spots. I was often at, you know, 285. Kent, I was on that block. I was at DBA. Oh, wow. So you were taking the train to the shitholes over the bridge. If it was a shithole, I was there. 285 Kent was a little down market for me, but I did, unfortunately, have to go there a few times. Jason and I both grew up going to hardcore shows, so I've been in a lot of shitty places to see music. It was better than that. It's good for your formative years, but as you get a little older, you kind of age out of the...

Smells like pee pee kind of spots, you know, but it's good. Totally. I mean, music never sounds better than at a truly shitty place. You know, I feel like you can, I feel like you can pretend that like all these bars that like, yeah, like these venues are nice and stuff and like having the, you know, drink options and like. feeling vaguely normal is like nice, but we all know that's not where your most like pivotal music experiences happen. You're absolutely right. Yeah. No one's going to have their life changed at Brooklyn steel. That's for sure. No, no. Yeah. If, if the, if they give you all of the stuff on your rider, the show is going to sound like shit. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's, I think you might be right though, but that era of those, I mean, I, I don't think any of that stuff can really exist in New York anymore. Am I wrong? Well, you know, I think it, it does in ways. I mean, I think in the past few years, there's like more of these kind of like secret venues that you have to like get the name of, or they have to like survive in like different ways. It definitely can't be, can't be, you know, the way that it was. And, and that is really sad, but what I hope and what I think is true is that there's still like this culture that I'm just. not super i'm not as connected to anymore because like my life and my band and what we were what we were trying to do changed but i believe that it's there i'm just i'm just not there i that's true i mean i always i think about that with hardcore because i'm like i can't listen to shit anymore it makes me feel insane but then i see that it's still happening there's like big shows and there's all this shit like oh so this still happens and people still go it's just i'm older now and have different priorities it's like that's what happened totally and it you know it doesn't it doesn't change how much I love them. Do you remember that venue, Big Snow Buffalo Lodge? Do you remember that one? No. No, great name, though. I'm intrigued. No, I did not go there. A little wordy, but I'm down to hear more. It was so good. And they used to serve shots in, like, those little cups that you would get from the dentist. Yes, yes, of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah, the shitty plastic cups for mouthwash is what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, like, yeah, little mouthwash cups. And I remember the guy, I can't remember his name. He went on to do, like, went on to do real estate, like, real estate, actually, at this little company. I love it. But he got shot.

outside of the venue and he lived obviously love it less that was why he obviously you know he was like i don't think people are going to want to go here anymore since i got shot and i was like and you're like way to make everything about you i was like i was really really sad for a while i was like you can't close down the venue i'll still go i want to go just because you got shot doesn't mean you can close he's in the he's in the hospital he throws you the keys you fucking do it then yeah i know Damn, I didn't know it was like that. I mean, how deep in Brooklyn are we talking? Jesus Christ. You know, it was early Bushwick. I got mugged going to Shea Stadium trying to go to a show where doors were at 1 a.m. when I was 16. Stuff like that. I was just... I was just out there at the show. In New York, that stuff is so much more extreme, I feel like, than our experience. Just like, yeah, I would drive to the city and park my car. You know what I mean? There was no risk involved in what I was doing. You were in a bad neighborhood, but no one's going to mug me. That's for sure. Jason, I don't know. Jason might have gotten stuck up before. Chris is much more likely to be mugged now just by the way he kind of looks. That's true. He's sort of asking for it. Begging. begging our listeners can agree but no i never really had too much trouble i mean you know like someone's car get broken into or you might get a little yeah of course hey let me have that you live through it and julia also on this program we like to talk to musicians about um making money via sinks and licensing so i would love to hear some stories about how you either made a lot of money or turned down a lot of money if you could share those with us that would be great sure well i mean up and up until recently i Couldn't say that there was much, very exciting happenings for me in that field, although I really wanted there to be. Me, no, make money. I honestly, I felt like I had sort of, I was starting to believe that that was kind of like.

sort of like a fantasy that you know or almost like a you know thing where they're like it was mythology mythology from days of yore that stuff doesn't happen to people anymore but so i'll tell you something interesting so we wrote this song a few years ago it's the only uh what i would say like happy song i ever i ever wrote and it's called uh it's called moment in the sun and we wrote it in la when we were you know just like on you know after a tour and we were like writing and working with people and It's just this little demo and I kind of never thought anything would happen with it. And our label really, really wanted us to put it out. And we didn't exactly, it just, we didn't know where it fit in or like what was going to happen with it. And then the pandemic happened and it was the only, it ended up being like the only sort of like, sort of usable music that we had recorded and the label still really wanted us to do it. And our friend Jacob Portrait, who we did the record with. you know, basically produced the original demo and we put it out, you know, and like my friend from high school was in the video and it was just like this thing. It happened two years ago. And like, it was fine, you know, nothing like major happened. It was fine. It was fine. You know, COVID release. We got to put some content out. It's not, it's not going to change my life for the better or for the worse. It's just there. It's there. And I, you know, it wasn't, I didn't necessarily feel like ideal about. every single part of it, you know, but I was just like, this is kind of, this is, this is the move that I got to make. And like two, two weeks ago, the song just got used in this, like in this Netflix show called heart stopper, which is like based off this. I'd never heard of it, but it's like based off this comic. It's like super gay. It's British. Um, it's awesome. So you're saying the, the gay, the gay British graphic novel felt your song. Yes. And like everyone they had on the soundtrack was like, is. is really cool and cute. And they basically put the song in like one of the most important scenes in the show. It's like when the two, the two main characters kiss for the first time. And like, since then the song has been streaming like a hundred thousand streams a day. And it was, I mean, it not, you know, it wasn't, it was, you know, decent, decent money. And the fact that it was kind of a happy song that I always felt like I didn't necessarily understand how to relate to, especially like,

about you know a person that i love that i wasn't in a relationship with anymore and you know i just always felt like i could never really just commit to it and now that it's in this show like there's all these kids that are like this song sounds like this song sounds like happiness like it makes me you know like i'm crying like fucking like tears of joy you know and for me that takes away like all of the weirdness that i felt where i'm just like you know like It's doing the right thing. You are who this is meant for. You're like, I don't like the song myself, but I'm very glad that some other young people out there do. Yeah. But you know what? We've been rehearsing it today. We took it out of the set for a bit, but we have been playing it. And it is a really, you know, you just play it and it's just a fucking good, fun little song. And I'm actually really happy that it's back in the set. So it's like the whole thing is making me. fall in love with the song again maybe I'll do a different version of it someday that's like you know so you know if you want to do the remix album just let me know my A&R rates are not are not low but you know If I like the song, we can talk. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's what she needs, Jason, is a Them Jeans produced remix album. No, no, I'm getting the talent. I'm not going to touch it. Okay, I understand. Yeah, yeah. You're more of a curator than an artist these days. The budgets aren't really that big. I understand. To have me come on the boards. Oh, I see. I see for you to touch it. Price going up. I didn't want to have to go there. Okay, well, I mean, that's amazing. Congratulations. And that's kind of like. You were talking at the beginning of the show about it has to be viral. What happened to just making good music that I love? Why can't I just make that instead of let's make something that will make money and go viral, which is an unfortunate kind of necessary evil in the world of being an artist that makes money and doesn't have to work at the UPS store or whatever. But you were able to sort of create something viral.

That happens naturally, you know, and people really love and latch on to things when they go viral naturally. You can just feel it versus when it's been orchestrated or like it went viral because the label spent 11 million dollars on Facebook ads for it to go viral or whatever. Like it's nice to see something organic happening in an inorganic way, if that makes sense. Yeah, totally. And it's like, you know, and if it touches them and if it affects. affects their life and if they want to bring it into their life like to me that is the point of of being a musician it's like this it's it's it's like a weird communication that for whatever reason you feel the need to do and take these emotions and put them into a song and you got to get it to people i don't know why i'm like this i don't know i don't know what the whole i don't know the reason but i know that it feels great and i know that you know i've played a show in nebraska that nobody came to but one kid and his girlfriend came and brought the headstock of his guitar and asked me to sign it and asked how you write songs and start a band and you know stuff like that like the little the little messages and like the kids and like the people and and that kid harry styles that kid harry styles it's nice to know that like one little thing that you did could change someone's life forever you know And you're kind of a dick if you don't do that. People also like, they're always like, oh, you know, you know, you might never read this or this doesn't matter. And I'm like, I think people also, it would be nice to know that a lot of these times, like, you know. the messages they might be sending to these musicians really help them feel like they're not, like, worthless, like, pieces of shit. You know what I mean? These losers are helping you, too. Yeah. I mean, Drake is responding to those DMs for a reason. You know what I mean? He's feeling the love. We're losers helping each other. Independent music. Losers helping each other. Exactly. Exactly. Losers. Losers mutually losing together. We found a new way to have sex that's not based on our looks or our intelligence or our financial status. Well, actually, that reminds me. I was reading a tweet that said, going to Sunflower Bean seemed like a great idea until I realized I'm sealed in a room with every single person I've ever matched with on Tinder. And that leads me to ask, what is your crowd looking like?

Have you ever been playing a show yourself and seen somebody that you have dated or matched with in the crowd? You know, New York is so big, but it's also so small. I mean, you know, exes are fucking everywhere. You know, it's just like they just. In L.A., they can spread out. but in New York, you guys are all in the same square block. They find a way, you know, I don't, I guess it's, I guess it's because we all have the same interests, but you know, the last time, the last, one of the most recent times I saw an ex of mine, I was going to return something at Best Buy. So it was in Union Square and I was wearing like my, my most colorful, you know, it was, it was in severe, like do not look at me most. And I had like, you know, like old makeup on and, you know, he was like pushing a, like a cart or something. It was just like the most. What department did he work in? Not carting. So, so, so you're saying you were looking like shit and he was, it was just, no, I was, I think we, we both look like shit. It was just the most New York meetup, like someone having to like roll something extremely heavy and having to return something at the union square best buy. Like, of course, that's where you run into an ex. You know what I mean? I think my exes don't go to shows, but, you know, it's that are my shows. But that's the problem. Music fans can look like anything and they're down to mosh and podcast fans look like shit. No, no, no, no. I love moshing. And a sunflower bean show is a really, it's a really good mosh pit because it's like, it'll go there, but it won't, you know, you're not going to get like fucked up, you know, you can mosh, but you're, you at the end of the day, it's usually like the mosh is usually started. and directed by a bunch of very cool girls. I understand. So there's no head walking. Are you familiar with head walking, Julia? I am not, but it sounds like a mosh pit term. So it's basically you, instead of stage diving, you kind of walk out aggressively onto the crowd, feet first, and kind of step on people and see how far you can go. Right. Like if you're crossing a bridge over a small stream and there's little stones placed for you to skip around,

think of the stones as the top of different heads of people wearing new balances. Yeah. And that it, it makes a lot of sense. I'm seeing the picture. I have seen, I've definitely, you know, I feel like I've definitely seen it happen. I've never pulled it off. Um, I've never tried, you know, I do love diving into the crowd. I've had like, I remember the first time I like, My stage dive was at a Fiddler show at Bowery Ballroom. Wow. Friends of the show. I did it. The first two times were awesome. And then I went to do it a third time. And you can't like. You got greedy. You got greedy, didn't you? I got greedy. I overstayed my welcome. And I got nervous and started thinking too much. And then I jumped out and I kind of like landed sort of like. I landed on my head. There was like a video of it. It was like a straight dive down. And it like, and I got my neck and then I, um, then I ended up getting a tattoo and I can't, it's not one of my favorite ones. And I do think that it was impacted by the fact that I had just fallen on my head. So you're saying that you, so you're saying that you, you went to, you went to a fiddler show, you staged a, if it didn't work out, you may get a small head injury and that resulted in a tattoo. This is the most burger record shit I've ever heard in my life. I know. I know. It was, it was a burger moment. I went to like a, I went to a tattoo shop in the West Village that was like open all night. And it smelled like so much weed. The guy that did my tattoo, like his eyes were crossing as he was doing it. Great. That bodes well. So what is the tattoo? It's a little, it's just like a stupid little X that I got behind my ear. I can't even tell you why. You know, I guess some sort of like X marks the spot. The spot of what is nothing. Look, you're talking to two guys with plenty of tattoos. Look, you win some, you lose some. I've heard of much worse. No, I haven't committed to a very big outward tattoo. So you're yatted up, though. You've got some stuff going on. You've got a bunch of little ones, but you don't have your kind of eagle back piece that you're waiting on. You know what? I can't make this up. I've been talking about an eagle back piece.

Really? I was like an absolutely psycho crazy move. I'm like to the band. I've been like, should I do it? Should I get like a bald fucking eagle on my back? You know, I know a few girls that have like the whole back piece kind of thing. And it is a certain type of person. And you might fit that mold as well. But it's not anything that you could ever put into words to describe it. It's just some kind of powerful energy where, you know, you, Ben Affleck, a few other people, they have that phoenix inside of them that needs to rise out. Right. It's truly a vibe that I definitely don't need. No, look, I think that's fine. I mean, I think then it becomes – the problem is when people get tattoos that are extremely – noticeable and large they start to dress differently to show them off yeah and i think that's like if you start wearing a bunch of backless tops right you know what i mean that's that's more of a cry it's like the guy that gets the neck tattoo and he only wears v-necks you know it's like you can't you that's the that's worse than the the tattoo itself in my opinion it's true well i mean also like i it's hard to say now because of because of how different modeling is but like when i started to you know you would have to like you would have to list all the tattoos that you had. And, you know, you'd kind of, like, have to ask for approval if you were, like, really serious about it. Because they wouldn't want you to be all tied up. So I think from back then, I was just like, oh, you know, getting tattoos will be more trouble than it's worth. I don't want to have to get it fucking approved. It'll make my career that much harder. I can't be in the makeup chair for three hours with Pat. She doesn't have time for that. She does not have time to cover up some dumb little... thing that I got while obviously jumping off a stage. I like the back piece for you. I think you should do it. Once you get that first millie in the bank, then you say fuck it, get the full eagle back piece. Do you guys think that tramp stamps are going to come back? I think they already are. It sounds like you guys have been seeing some. Oh yeah, for sure. Jason's seen a lot more than me, if you know what I'm saying. What the fuck?

No, but I mean, I think that if low-rise jeans are coming back and all of that nasty shit from the early 2000s, I think nothing drives that home more than a tramp stamp, really. Nothing nasty about that, Chris. That's just good, wholesome, horny fun. Yeah, that's a good point. Have you considered the tramp stamp? And if so, do you know what type of art? You would want to throw on there? You know, if I'm two psychotic breaks away from the eagle back piece, I'm probably like, I'm probably like eight psychotic breaks away from the tramp stamp. But I feel like I've seen some really, I've seen some designs lately. Like I've seen some people doing it and I was like, oh, it's kind of, kind of back in like a kind of cool, in a cool way. And I'm sure compared to the last time tramp stamps were around. There's no way people will end up regretting it this time around. This time it's going to stick. No. No. This time, this is the time. This time it's worth it. Look, I think if you put the right thought into it, you're the right type of person, it matches your personality and spirit. I think it can work. I think it can be sexy, but it's also the level of difficulty is there. Not anyone can just load up and be like, all right, give me the fucking... the devil wings or, you know, the keep on trucking or whatever butterfly thing you want. Like it's very risky, but if you can pull it off. Yeah, no, absolutely. Plus it's a, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a big flat piece of, of real estate. It's true. It's true. All right. It looks like I gotta go. Yeah. Julia, thank you for joining us on how long gone. Uh, the new sunflower bean album is in stores now, correct? It is in stores now. It is out. It came out on Friday. So this is the first week. All right, Julia, have fun. Best of luck on tour, and we'll see you soon. Yay, thank you guys so much. I had so much fun.