775. - Jake Tapper

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? Super Tuesday. It's been a rough 24 hours for me, but I am perched on the 24th floor. of the ritz carlton so i have a nice view of atlanta georgia even though that's not what i want right now jason how are you feeling i'm feeling good it's a great liberation day ready to wake i mean we're recording this tuesday april fool's day but there's nothing uh foolish about what's going on today in the news i'm assuming i don't know yet i mean anything can happen i'm sorry that you're going through some local travel trouble so you're coming back from el paso by way of marfa to nyc Stuck in Atlanta, Delta's hub, and then five-hour delay only to learn that it has eventually been canceled. Okay. Did you? That's right. I mean, where do we begin? Did you? Well, the real cherry on top is that the day starts with a three-hour drive from Marfa Hotel, Paso. Right. Okay. You know what I mean? That's just long enough to where that is the trip. Yeah, exactly. That's a great way to look at it. We were able to go to Barnes & Noble in El Paso to get Alex a book because she had finished hers on the trip and see the sights. But the flight from El Paso to Atlanta was maybe the worst crowd I've ever had on an airplane in my life. But we made it to Atlanta. There was a five-hour delay around, I would say, 11.45. They called it.

I got, yeah, I got on booking.com. I got on booking.yeah. Ritz-Carlton was a good price, and I was like, I need this right now. I can't go to an airport hotel. And then I'm glad I did because I got on the phone with Delta when we got here, and they were basically, because of our recording schedule and a few other work things, I can't get back until Wednesday morning. Crazy. yeah i know it's well i mean we could have left it at like four but like it just didn't work you know what i mean so anyway here we are and i'm honestly this morning i was having a fucking meltdown because it's a long story but now Now, you know, you were having a meltdown. Honestly, dude, I don't do it that much anymore. But like I went downstairs because I had to basically I booked the room for one night on booking.com. And when I was checking, I was like, hey, if the flight thing doesn't work out, I'm going to need to extend. And they were like, oh, yeah, no problem. Just come down and extend. I go down to extend. They're like, oh, yeah, we don't have anything. You know what I mean? And I was like, but you literally... So anyway, I had to have some words with the front desk staff. They were able to sort it out. But it was a real... I mean, that's the problem when all that you had to do to fix this impossible problem is to just yell and then magically it happens. I mean, it really is a bummer. I'm sure you weren't disrespecting them, but rightfully so. There's a classic Seinfeld episode about it at the car rental. Of course. Where, you know, I don't think you know how reservations work. You know, that kind of thing. Sure, sure. I actually have learned and mellowed in my old age to realize that, you know, charm and kindness will get you further than anger in these situations, which is a hard thing for me. to learn because obviously my default is anger um but i i am is that the tj effect i wouldn't say that i would say i would not know though right eerily no not no not no but it's it's i think it's more aging and under stage and also experience to know like well i've done both and this one works and the other one doesn't so if i can control myself yeah you've been beaten into submission at least i'm gonna be able to get and i like to watch i'm gonna be able to get a haircut

for my boy Chad and then get Elmira and then hit the road. You know, it could be worse. We could be stuck somewhere awful. You know what I mean? It could be worse, Chris. My barber is currently in the hospital right now, so he's not cutting anything. What happened? Did he get hurt fighting for Rilo Kiley tickets or is he good? I did not ask exactly what his ailment was. You didn't ask. You're telling me you hit your barber saying, can I come in at three and he's like, bro, I'm in the hospital. You just left it at that? No, no. I mean, we continued the convo, but I didn't ask for his charge. I'm asking for the charge. I'm asking for what are you in for, chief? I need to know what you're in for. Okay. He said, brother, you're not going to believe this. I'm in the hospital. I'll be here for a few days. And then he sent me a selfie of him in the hospital. He's got the IV. in his arm and you know i'm sure we're running tests and then i said let me know if i can help out with anything outside of the hospital bill and uh and that was it you know i don't want to pry because you know people's injuries might be it might be personal private and embarrassing i'm not saying that's exactly why you ask that's exactly why you ask for those three words you just mentioned i got a i got a crescent wrench stuck up my ass yeah no i know i mean that's the thing I don't, I'm sure it's something, uh, less nefarious, probably like an appendix or maybe, you know, something like that, you know, stones of some kind, but pray for autoimmune disease. Yeah. Hopefully it's a kidney stone. So what you're just going to wait out. You don't need a haircut urgently enough, right? Well, I'm right on that borderline because my hair right now on the, on the sides and the back, it could use a little tidying up, especially since we're going to be on camera talent in just a few days. with a friend of the show boniver oh yeah shit but what's happening on top is a real 2003 brad pitt kind of you know perfectly bed-headed mussy fussy uh you know how did she do it type of style and i i think i'm just gonna have to ride this way for a little bit and and see what happens okay but so you you're saying i mean compared to you and justin i'll still have the best hair in the room it's not like uh sure it's not that bad well you know it's not a race to the top i'm already here in the wiener circle but you know it's just for me right i understand that i understand and also i mean if you know

your barber if he's not up to 100 he might fuck something up you know what i mean and i wouldn't i wouldn't wish that on you or him but you know if my man is still recovering he could be weak i don't want i don't want the straight rares on my neck while his shingles are kicking in again right that's exactly yes that's exactly my polio arm acting up that's that's absolutely the fear that i that i have personally well um i think i think before our guest here we should talk a little bit about uh morgan wallingate it seems like uh the little thing that we were talking about on the last episode has sort of erupted into a political discourse you know why jason you know why that is jason do you know why that is it's because the public i know the public at large is full of fucking idiots like i don't think that morgan wallen i think morgan wallen wanted to leave and didn't know where to go and walked the way that was in front of him that's literally that's truly what i think i don't think morgan wallen is smart enough to hatch a diabolical plan to not hug bow and yang out of protest and head to the private jet i just don't believe it i don't know if you do i don't i think i think the truth could be somewhere in the middle because it feels a little hard to believe that So this means that he has never seen an episode of SNL. And there weren't 5,000 line producers telling him exactly what's going to happen at any given moment. I think it was intentional, but I also don't think it was any type of political act. He wasn't de-occupying Wall Street. De-occupying 8H. He was not deoccupying the SNL stage. I got served some video of an SNL podcast that were these three dorks saying he should be banned for just going crazy about it and disrespecting the institution. I'm like, bro, I just don't think it's that big of a deal. I think it's funny, of course, because then he obviously posted a picture of Private Jet and said, get me back to God's country, which...

is genius and spawned a million memes. So once again, Morgan Wallet wins. You know what I'm saying? Like he's still, I don't think there's a downside for him personally. Well, I would say that the downside is that he looks like a stolen valor, false country boy. You know, if it's so urgent for him to get back to God's country, which we're assuming is the American South, his homeland. Tennessee. Which means that he's in. You know, being in New York. Well, hey, look, Jason. Hey, look, Jason. The devil's playground, if it's the inverse of God's country. Sometimes our jobs take us to places we don't want to go. You know what I mean? That's just what it is. Well, if you're a real cowboy, you do what you want. Hey, man. That's all I'm saying. Let me tell you something about cowboys in 2025. Real cowboys do what Hollywood wants. Okay. Well, I'm saying don't act like a real cowboy if you do that and then. I mean, he chose to be on SNL unless he really did make a deal with the devil. So he chose to fly on his private jet, also a tool of the devil, into New York, the devil's playground, Hell's Kitchen. He's a devout follower of God. He's a big church guy. I don't know about all that. He's thanking God. He's a fucking Christian. Everybody thanks God. Jesus Street country boy. So rule number one in church, don't go to where the devil hangs out every day. on on the devil's flying tool hey man most most most people aren't trying to get a number one you know and that's the thing that that will drive you to do things that you may not want to do yeah but what The one takeaway that I thought was funny, which is the chances of this happening are very, very low. But it reminded me of when you see a rapper, like a Tekashi69, show up in Chicago. And he's like, I'm on your block. And, you know, where are you? Kind of thing. Like showing up onto your rival turf. And then he's like, hey, get me out of here. So he's like, he's showing up on the rival's turf.

the devil's playground of new york city really you've really thought about this i i don't i don't think any of this applies i think that he's drunk and wanted to leave but i do think it was intentional i do think it was intentional uh i do think it was i just i just love the cowboy energy of this guy who's like Get me the heck out of here. All right. Anyway. Yeah. We have a guest today. We do have a guest today. Jake Tapper is joining us. I believe we're both in Atlanta, actually. But he has a couple books coming out. He's got a new show. He's on your TV every night. Thank you for joining us. Jake, what's good? This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcast. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone. It was brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking something put together, a cabinet. Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And, I mean, how it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture.

repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a Tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because Taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs, handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world, is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code. how long taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative, but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional.

as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash how long for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code how long to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Good to meet you guys. Hey, you too, man. Are you in fact in Atlanta? I am not. I do want to embarrass you. I'm in Washington, D.C. Chris, why did you think that he would be in Atlanta? CNN's headquarters. And I'm just down the street because I got stranded here last night at Hartsville-Jackson, so I'm literally down the street from CNN in a hotel. So pray for me, Jake. I've only been to the CNN Atlanta headquarters once, and that's when we did the presidential debate. I am praying for you. I don't want to dismiss the prayer. All right. Okay, so how long have you worked for CNN for? You've been one time? I have worked for CNN since 2013, and I've been to the Atlanta headquarters once. Wow. How did you pull that off? That's hashtag work from home energy, baby. I like that. How did you pull that off? You just told them I ain't doing all that, and they were like, yes, sir? Well, they hired me in the D.C. Bureau, so there's really no reason. Okay, technically. I thought maybe you would want to come in and. Fratenize with your coworkers, et cetera. But you get enough of that, I guess. It's not that I don't want to. It's just, you know, I'm pretty busy. And when I got hired, that was right at the time that the brand new head of CNN, Jeff Zucker, was moving the headquarters from Atlanta to New York City. So I've been to New York City a bunch of times, the CNN bureau there, but just never. Are you enjoying Atlanta? I'm from here. I'm from here originally. So, yeah, it's a fine place to be straight in. The weather, it's beautiful outside. It's all good. You're on Peachtree Street and Peach Lane. I've got a beautiful view of the Hard Rock Cafe. Life is good, man. It doesn't get better than this. Somehow you're in 1986, but okay. Downtown Atlanta kind of is 1986. That's what's funny. You know how certain downtowns of major cities... Planet Hollywood. I got it. Benny Hanna. Exactly. They just don't progress past that because they don't need to. Well, maybe there's no need. It was just so perfect. Why change? Why change? In Atlanta, they're like...

This is good. Progress is not always good. I agree. I agree. Progress can go both ways. Progress can go both ways. All right. So you're in D.C. You live in D.C. I live in Washington, D.C., yeah. Okay. But Virginia or like D.C.? D.C. Okay. D.C., baby. I keep it real. Okay. I want to be clear. The city of Washington, D.C., yes. Have you visited any of Keith McNally's new restaurants is the question. Have you been to the Minetta Tavern, D.C.? No. Oh, we got to get you in there. We got to get you in there. Seems like a good place to get a political scoop. I'd love to be invited to any of these places. I will say that they're open to the public. I married a homebody. I married somebody who likes to be home or, like, within a couple minutes. I was worried you were going to say I married a vegan. No, no. Homebody. So your wife doesn't like to paint the town red? No. She likes to paint the block, you know. Peach. Sure. So walking the dog around the neighborhood is as far as we're going to go. Yes, walking the three dogs around the neighborhood. And there are a couple of restaurants near us that we go to. Okay. Do you think your wife has amassed this small farmhouse collection of animals because it makes it easier for her to stay home and not leave anywhere? It's a good excuse, right? I think you are, if you don't have a degree in psychotherapy, then you should have one. Yes, I think that is. Well, what are we going to do about the cat? We can't go to Fuddruckers. We also have a cat. We also just got a cat. We have three dogs and a cat. And I think part of it is that our oldest is going to college in the fall. So there's a little preemptive empty nest filling the hole. And part of it is, yeah, like we can't go. We have. Three dogs and a cat? Why would we? And a son. I also have a kid. Another kid. But he needs us less than the dogs and the cat. So you're telling me Tapper has to pick up shit on the ground? Oh, no. Okay, I didn't think so. I didn't think so. Because we can't see. If I caught you doing that, I would be bummed. I couldn't take you as seriously when you're reporting this. I carry the poop.

No, I carry the poop bags, but I hand them to my wife. You're a gentleman. You're a gentleman. I carry the poop bags. That's what I'm saying. That's how the hierarchy works. My wife and I, she holds the leashes, but I have to do the picking up. My wife was staying at the Carlisle Hotel in New York yesterday, and she overheard some old Chanel-wearing ladies there. discussing how the weather is not looking so good, so they'll have somebody walk the dogs for them. At that hotel, you can just call down to the front desk and be like, can you just walk my dog, please? I'm not really into the weather right now. And that, to me, is real living. But I have to say also, this is, if you like pets, that is a great racket. dog walker oh yeah you kind of set your own hours if you like dogs it's fun we we have a dog walker he's not the only one that walks them but just because we have two giant dogs right and they're puppies we have two bernadoodles and they're puppies so if they don't get they gotta get worked they do I think that they are like little baby puppies, but they are the size of horses. And so if they don't get regular exercise, then it's insanity. What's the price tag on adopting one of these Bernadoodles from South Korea, my friend? How much is that going to set you back? We only buy American dogs, but I will say... Hell yeah. Well, now with the tariffs looming in the future, you're going to have to outsource in Boulder or something, right? That's an interesting thing. I wonder if he ever thought about it. imposing tariffs on foreign foreign dogs you know a lot of presidents have had like famous pets yeah you know trump doesn't seem like a pet guy and it takes one to know one i hate pets too so i kind of more of a prostitute guy i just i just don't understand i'm sorry i didn't hear that there was a glitch i don't understand you don't have to comment on any of this i don't understand the responsibility of pet like i just don't get it like i just don't i don't have it in me to do that

The thought of having to limit my social schedule. You're young. No, I'm 42. I look very young, but I'm 42. You're 42. Do you have a wife and kids? I have a wife, yeah. No kidding. She would probably like a dog, but I live in New York. It's disgusting. All right. I mean, look, I have a lot of friends like you, so I'm not going to argue about it. First of all, I'm not. I am not the purchaser or the adopter of the pets. But you're a guy, you go with the flow at home. If everybody wants it, you're like, fuck it, let's do it. I will tell you that one of the lessons that I give young men getting married is surrender Dorothy. Okay. You know, that's from the Wizard of Oz. It's from the Wizard of Oz. It just means happy wife, happy life. That's it. If she wants dogs, get dogs. My therapist would argue that that is unhealthy. It should not be happy wife, happy life, because then what about baby Jake? Baby Jake, not happy. And you've got to put your mask on first before you put on your others. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's true. I'm great. It's fine. I think the point is you only really need to stake your ground on stuff that really, really, really matters, and everything else is nonsense. That's true. I mean, I agree with you on that. I agree with you on that. But for some reason, a pet is that level for me. It's a compromise. You get the pet that I don't want, then when I want to get a car that you think is stupid, maybe that door will swing the other way. Exactly. So do you have any stupid cars, Jake? I do. I do have a stupid car. I have a normal electric vehicle, BMW, kind of newish. This is really dumb. Years ago, I thought to myself, you know what I really would like would be a convertible SUV. Why don't they make convertible SUVs? Because I would like a convertible when it's nice out. DC in the spring and fall, nothing better. But then I don't want to have to deal with skidding all over the place in the winter. I like an SUV.

And car manufacturers will make convertible SUVs like every five years. Somebody will try to make one. And there are 3000 idiots like me who will immediately buy it. But they have. I'm not talking about a Jeep. I don't want to. Most of them live in Miami. You're talking about like when Range Rover did the evoke. Yes. Evoke. That's what I have. That is what I am. I have an Evoke. You've got the convertible Evoke. It's so nice to finally meet an Evoke owner. There you go. Because I've seen them. Well, except, do you know John King from CNN? He's also an Evoke owner. Wow. I guess we're having a midlife crisis at the same time. Okay, but is it a regular color or do you go like cherry red? Okay, black. And how often do you think you're dropping the top on that bad boy? I only drive it if I'm dropping the top. So it's a few times in the spring and a few times in the fall ride, but they stopped making them. Well, yeah, there's a reason for that. What is the reason? Have you ever driven a convertible SUV? I'm telling you, it is. Now that you say that, no, but I was hoping you were going to say either vintage Bronco that you had chopped or PT Cruiser. PT Cruiser. You know what I mean? Well, a lot of people will have... It's like a Miata. No shade, but the Range Rover Evoque is the Miata of their fleet, I would say. I thought that's what you're thinking. That's what you're thinking. It's true. I was actually in a commercial for the Range Rover Evoque. I got to drive it around L.A. for a couple days. It was amazing. Is that true? Yeah, that is true. That is true. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. L.A. is the perfect place to drive a convertible because it's just nice enough. Let me say this as a convertible owner in L.A. I will say that it's really dusk and morning. Because midday, if you take the top down, the sun is beating down upon you. I've learned my lesson. I've gotten some weird tan lines, a lot of sweat. I've had to learn the hard way. It's not a car that makes a lot of sense. In college, I read a book called The Best and the Brightest about the genius architects of the Vietnam War. By the way, pet peeve, the term the best and the brightest.

is a joke. It's meant by David Halberstam. He's saying, look what these idiots led us into, even though they all went to Harvard, blah, blah, blah. Anytime anybody says the best and the brightest, they're using it incorrectly because it's meant as a burn. Anyway, the only thing I remember from the book is that the guy, and I forget which one it was, maybe it was the Secretary of Defense, used to be President of General Motors for LBJ, and he did not understand why anybody made because they lasted half as long. That's the only thing I remember from that book. But it is a car that doesn't make sense, but it's very enjoyable. No, that's, yeah. I mean, some of the best things in life don't make sense, but are enjoyable. You know, I think that's a thread through those things. Most of them. Yeah, most of them. Luxuries that you don't need. Look, I'm glad that you found something you like, you know, because I feel like you, because you have time for hobbies, though, or are you just, are you just, because if you're writing two books, you got eight TV shows, I feel like driving around is all you can do. I don't have a time. I mean, I don't have a ton of time for hobbies. I collect Philly's baseball cards. I collect cartoon art, like original cartoon art. But these aren't hobbies that like take time. Right. This is just like lying in bed on eBay or live auctioneers.com. I like buying shit too, Jake. I know exactly what you're talking about. That's what I'm saying. It's not woodworking. I've got to go out to the garage. I'm almost done with whittling my canoe out of a tree trunk. You're more of like, yeah, let's get that Rugrats sell from 1994. No, I'm not into animation. I mean, it's more like... It's more cartoons, you said? Comic strips and stuff. Like the golden era, like... Classics. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's something that is available to buy, and I'm glad that you found that, too. It sounds like... And Nunky Dunks, and buying Nunky Dunks. These are my hobbies. Yeah, so... But are you also like a history buff? Yeah, sure. Do you have to... Have you... Because, you know, my dad has read all the presidential... Like, he loves all that shit. You have to do it for work, but you enjoy it. I do. I do enjoy it a lot. And actually, my...

This is my study at home right now, but my work office, where we'll do this next time, if you want, has a collection of posters. for losing presidential candidates. Oh, that's nice. It's just losing candidates. Okay, so who's the top three of those, you would say? Most of them is just Native. Yeah, who are we? I've got 17 portraits. I don't know if anyone else has this collection. This feels exclusive to you. Yeah, it started... It's a race to the bottom, and you've won. It started... In 2000, when I was on the campaign trial and I just started collecting the lawn signs of every candidate. And then when the election was over, all of them were losers except for one of them. So then I just hung up all of them except for Bush. And the best one I have is this giant Al Smith poster. I think that's 1928. It's huge. I have a Strom Thurmond Dixiecrat one, 1948. Dixiecrat? Holy shit, I've never heard that. I've never heard that term before, and I feel like that's what I am. No. I didn't know that. Oh, I don't. Okay, okay. Explicitly racist party from 1948. Oh, my bad, my bad, my bad, my bad. My bad. It had a nice ring to it. To me, it sounded like a nice side dish you'd get at a cookout. Yeah, it does. It does. Yeah, I'm sorry. Somebody hijacked the word Dixie. See, this is what happens. This is what happens. I can't even use the cups anymore. Well, look, it happened in the other way from woke, right? Woke used to mean something nice. That's true. It doesn't take long for a word to turn. It used to mean you had a healthy suspicion of the government and you paid attention to bad things going on. Yes, you were awake. You had been awoken to the suffering of others and the needs of other people, and now it means whatever it means. That's what the Dixiecrats wanted to do to us, man. That's what the Dixiecrats wanted to do. It was just revenge. Honestly, it was just revenge. Their superpower is taking those words and just flipping it. Anyway, so I do have a good collection of losing candidates. That's cool. And that's a fun – I feel like those are cheap, too, because they lost. No, no. Oh, they're not. Oh, no. Oh, because they're hard to get. Yes, exactly. And there's still this one that my white whale is – there's this William Jennings Bryan poster where he is the – he's standing astride the octopus of –

corporate America and oligarchy and whatever. I haven't been able to get it. Is it because it's hard to find or because of the price? There aren't that many of them. I don't know how much you guys are collectors of any sort, but during COVID, everything just went through the roof because everybody was just sitting at home and something that was like $1,000 became $5,000. Do you sell or just take in? I leave that to my children after my death. I assume that that's what's going to happen. Every one of my collections. I've got this Ross Perot 8x10 in the desk bathroom. It's all mine. Beautiful. I do have a Perot. I do have a Perot. It's signed. It's signed. I don't think the Perot is signed, but I do have a signed. john anderson assigned pat buchanan yeah anyway but these are these aren't signatures you got after the fact these are signatures that came on on the the poster when you purchased it uh the pat buchanan yes the john anderson no the john anderson i had the poster and then i met him and got him to sign it oh that's great i love that sometimes i'll do that one time i went back back in like i don't even know 15 20 years ago when i worked for abc news and just did whatever they told me they would send me on the most random assignments and it was the 100th anniversary of The Wright Brothers flight in North Carolina. Not Kitty Hawk. It's actually in a place called Kill Devil Hill. Sure. We're all told that it's Kitty Hawk, but it's not. It's Kill Devil Hill. Anyway, John Travolta was going to, because he's a pilot, as you must know, was going to be like the master of ceremonies. So I went on eBay and ordered John Travolta's. I was just like looking for any swag I could get him to sign. This is like in the early days of eBay. So it was like you could get stuff relatively cheap. So I got his album. He put out an LP. I bet he loved seeing that. He did? He did. He did. Did you have this all the time? Or whatever. It's not a good Travolta. I'm not an impression. Anyway. I'm like, yeah, no, I lied. I apologize. I lied. I was just, yes, I've had this since it came out. It's funny that that era, a lot of those kind of movie stars just did albums. It was just like something you kind of did. And I don't really, I don't understand. Because you could make money doing it. You could make money doing it. But it's a strange impulse if you don't have that experience. I'm trying to think there were a lot. You're right. I mean, there was Jack White. Well, you don't know who any of these people are, but.

Jack Wagner was a big soap opera star. He had a song. He did. Yeah, there's no, there's several. Patrick Swayze had a song, I believe. That was, yeah. Oh, that I do know. That was a hit. He's like the wind. I believe it might have been on. He's like the wind. She's like the wind. That was a hit. Yeah, that was a smash. Oh, they're all smashes. Bruce Willis put out two albums. Oh, I didn't know. Okay, so have you heard about, speaking of Bruce Willis, there's a new trend in Hollywood where you kind of go to a foreign land. Oh, yeah. And you make sort of like a, not red movie, but a movie with like old white guys with guns. Yeah. And you pay a Bruce Willis like $10 million. Yep. and it's financed by local rich people who want to be in the movie. So they're paying a million dollars each to have a cameo. Bruce Willis gets $10 million, and then it goes on VOD, and it's like a whole industry. It's like the Hallmark Channel for old white guys. I didn't know it was for the cameos, but I do know that there are actors like Bruce Willis is an example of them who did a lot of... uh before his retirement uh from film uh because of his uh frontal lobe dementia that he has and we all i'm sure are sympathetic to that but before that like he was doing a ton of movies for like five minutes yeah ton of money so they could put him on the poster and his becca's name switch yes and like when you're on netflix and you're like doing a search you see him Yeah, you're like, what are these movies? I've never heard of these movies. And it's cool because Bruce Willis is actually a legend where some of those guys that were doing it, you're like, I'm not clicking on that. Seagal's the OG of it, I think. Well, I think he moved to Russia. He moved, didn't he? I think he moved to Russia. He just went to where they like him kind of thing? I think so. I'm pretty sure. He knows where they butter his bread. Where they butter his borscht. Well, it's kind of like the actor version of...

Beyonce going to Saudi Arabia to do a corporate for $10 million under the radar, except everyone can watch it on demand at any moment. By the way, let me just ask you, have you ever had borscht? All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable. And they're just easy but, you know, still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. You know, they focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Hi Talk House Network listeners, it's your old friend Nels Klein from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan, Chautauqua, New York, Lafayette, New York, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Vienna, Virginia, Forest Hills, New York, Portland, Maine, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Memphis, Tennessee, La Grange, Georgia, Charleston.

South Carolina, Virginia Beach, Virginia, Wheeling, West Virginia, and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilkoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer. Ray-Ban Meta glasses take the friction out of travel. Move through the world with your hands free and your head up. Hey Meta, where's the nearest metro station? Closest metro to you is Union Square, about three blocks away. Hey Meta, text mom. I'm getting on the train now. Sending message. Juggle your itinerary, take calls, and listen to music with open-ear audio. No digging for your phone, no stopping for a map. Just you and your glasses. Ray-Ban Meta. Iconic style meets Meta AI. Available at Walmart and other authorized retailers. yeah i have and i enjoy it actually i had it when i traveled to ukraine to cover the war and it was so good yeah but i don't know that i would ever order in the united states because there's something about like i've um have you so this is braggy but um so the vodka in russia and ukraine is just not what they serve here it's just something else it's a different you mean like cocaine in columbia it's pure i'll take your word for it but yes but something something like that yeah yeah it's like i had a mojito in cuba once And it was just like, this is not the same thing. Yeah, I could see that. But good borscht can be found in America. But, you know, it's few and far between. But I like that. It should be that way. The tacos should taste better in Mexico than they do in Denver. I like that, by the way, as a title for your biography, good borscht. Good borscht. I like that. Well, where do people – I mean, I don't – when you went – a friend of ours works for the Telegraph in London. He went to the Ukraine to review a restaurant. Like recently, yeah. Like during the war. Yeah, it was a really cool. What city do you know? In Kiev? In Kiev, yeah. It was cool, and he met the chefs and did a whole thing. It was a really interesting story, but I was talking to him about it, and he was like, yeah, it's just surreal because you hear a siren basically all the time, right? Yeah. No, it's crazy. I was only in Kiev for one day. I was in Lviv for most of it. Lviv is much farther away from Russia.

um but yeah i was there for in well first of all in both places it's just non-stop sirens yeah but in kiev it was just it's like terrifying yeah when you do when you do this shit even though you've been doing it a long time i feel like it can't get easier really um no it's not uh it's and first of all they're far less likely to let me go you know now that i'm an anchor than when i was a correspondent You know, it's just like, you know, I get out of here. All right. They got Tapper. Send somebody else. We'll get him back. We'll get him back. We'll get him back. But but yeah, no, it's but it's it's it's brutal. We went we meaning me and my team, but also Anderson Cooper and Aaron Burnett were there. and wolf blitzer right after israel was attacked in october 2023 i guess it was and like that too it's just like non-stop missiles coming in sirens and then going to sites of it's just awful yeah war is not fun to cover so when you when you guys go in there you're going with obviously a team of producers cameras etc etc but you have local people on the ground you have security you have the whole thing yeah yeah no we're definitely there under more um safe circumstances than a lot of other reporters. Yeah, they take steps to make sure that we're as safe as possible. But still, it's risky. I mean, that poor Fox News crew got hit and a number of them got killed. This is early on in the war. and the correspondent lost his leg. I mean, it's risky stuff. Yeah, I mean, there's only so much you can do, right? There's only so much protection, you know what I mean? 100%. Yeah, look, I mean, if you're in a war zone, you're in a war zone. I mean, you try to take as many precautions as you can, but yeah. I guess nowadays with technology, if we're fighting our wars, you know, with the internet now, and there's not a lot of boots on the ground compared to what it used to be back in the day. you know do we need to have these reporters on the ground you know aren't we able to just you know tell these same stories with maybe remote footage or something like that i i think you do need to have reporters on the ground in the same way you need to have them there like after a hurricane or a typhoon or an earthquake or whatever just because you need to tell the story of the people that are suffering because of what's going on

um because of the wars without getting into the geopolitics of it also the image the imagery is so powerful like someone standing you know what i mean like standing with a fucking helmet on and bombs going off behind them is like yeah it kind of tells you how serious it is well that's the that's the thing is that um for i think that the media the news media and i understand why we do it but i think that we show too little of too many things like we don't show I mean, what would be the impact on our politics if people saw what it looked like after a gun massacre in the United States? Like, what would the impact be? Would there be I'm not pushing for gun control, but like if there is I mean, I think we can all agree that too many people who shouldn't have guns get their hands on them, people who are unstable or whatever. So if there's some sort of way to prevent that, would there be more movement or whatever? I don't know. But like whether it's war or that or. I just think that we don't show enough. That's a personal point of view. And I understand why we don't want to gross out or upset. Yeah, but there's a level of gross out that's like necessary. You know what I mean? If I can see 400 pictures of newly single Sidney Sweeney every day, I should be able to see something worse that makes me think. I didn't. After you said Sidney Sweeney, I didn't hear what you said. You didn't hear any words. That's fine. No, I totally I totally agree. I mean, like in some, you know, the photographs that win. Pulitzer Prizes or Press Foundation Awards and stuff like that are the ones of a kid in Sudan starving to death. Because we can hear about it, but unless you show it, we're a very visual species. Especially now. No one reads anything. No offense to an author, but it's tough to get people to sit down and crack a book. I agree. When I write my books... I I know that when I'm writing them and I try to write them accordingly. I know I'm competing with phones and TV and YouTube and Internet and dope podcasts. And yes, on that note, have you noticed a spike in demand for audio books since you have a familiar and relatable voice? Is that being pushed more so than than your written word? I did. I just.

We have this book, Original Sin, about Joe Biden coming out in May, and I just finished the audio book. And I will say that I co-wrote the book with Alex Thompson from Axios. And they wanted me to do the audio book because my voice is more familiar just because I've been on TV for 20 years and Alex is a print reporter. That's also some extra scratch for those sneakers. I don't think that I'm getting any more money. Let me talk to your agent. This is crazy. You've got to get five grand. I'll get you $1,500 a day or something like that, Jake. Does that sound good to you? I don't think I got any more money. It was in the contract. They were very quick on that. But that's the seventh book I've written. But some of the other ones, they had actors read some of the previous books. But maybe now that my voice who we got, John, John Hamm, who are we talking about? No, like just a Hollywood. Oh, just OK. Just a regular guy. Yeah. Who are more who are better, who are better narrators. But now I guess I don't anyway. But I will say that audio is a much bigger part of my life now than it was five or 10 years ago, in the same way that YouTube is a much bigger part of my life than it was five or 10 years ago. I remember feeling the. I'm never going to sit through one of these ads on YouTube. Then all of a sudden, I was sitting through the ads. Then you saw Mr. Beast and you changed your story. I'm not immune. It's the same thing with audio. The first podcast I listened to was Serial. For my generation, for Gen X, that was probably an entree. Once you realize the genius of it, you're like, oh, this is great. This is great when I'm... sitting in my house this is great when i'm driving etc etc so kudos to you guys for you know did you see did you see that article in the new york times over the weekend about gen x creatives and how like the jobs are drying up and how they're having to like find new careers you obviously it's it was just interesting because they talked to a guy that i know who's like successfully built this like surf brand and store in in brooklyn and it was but it was a lot of people who were just like yeah i'm you know

48 50 my kids are in college and like i don't know what to do anymore because my job is gone i can't be a dj anymore yeah literally literally like i can't be a creative director because there's people that will do it for cheaper that are younger and cooler that inevitably happens to every field though doesn't it exactly that's what that's what i'm saying yeah i mean that's kind of i mean i don't think that it's necessarily even like an ai thing i think it's more just like young people are willing to work for cheaper you know there's a certain point where you just you want to pay less well i think it's that but also like i i you know there's some big uh debate going on on social media right now about somebody that what the musical guest walked out of snl before you know jake we just talked about this i wanted is that right yeah right before both of the names i know that the the host is uh she just won an academy award for her role in the nora mikey madison yeah but like um You guys are – so you're what? So you're millennials. Is that right? Technically, unfortunately, we are millennials. I identify as – Elder millennials. I identify as Gen X. Gen X is my pronouns because I like the culture more, but technically, yes. I'm thoroughly Gen X. I was assigned to Ethan Hawke goatee at age 22, the whole thing. I got the standard issue. Yeah. So just right out of the – I could do Gen X jokes, but I don't want them to go. They'd be really under your head, not over your head. But in any case, the I think the point is, like, I don't know what the hell anybody's talking about younger than me. And like my staff is almost exclusively people younger than me with one. I have one writer who's a little bit older and my executive producer is pretty much my age. Maybe a year older. But other than that, everyone's much younger. None of my pop culture references make any sense. None of them are funny. They don't know who Jack Klugman is. I mean, there's just like a million things. You said pop culture. By the way, so I have a college reunion every year. And one of my friends who's coming to it, we came up with this idea of, and this is something I don't even know that will make any sense to any of your listeners. But we were going to come up with a contest.

Try to name as many people who you think guest starred on the love boat as possible. Yeah, that's not going to work here. That's not going to work here. But anyway, that's my point. Thank God my show is just the news, and I can tell what the news is, and I have good news judgment. And thank God that my job is not what is everybody talking about today in pop culture. Although I do have younger people who can tell me, no, we should do a segment today. about the torpedo mat you know on mlb and i'm like great let's do it you know that i knew well it's a good thing that we're talking because we're sort of the inverse of you we have no real news anchor experience we got any geopolitical knowledge whatsoever but in terms of pop culture for people of our age yeah we're able to really swim in a lot of waters and we're in that magic age where we can translate to the old people what the young people are doing and translate to the old, you know, vice versa. And enjoy it while you can. Enjoy it while you can. Yeah, we're creeping. But it's a full-time job paying attention to all this horse shit on Twitter. Yeah, I'm exhausted. You know what I mean? I'm exhausted. Is the horse shit what you cover or what I cover? I'm not sure. Well, I think a bit of both, honestly. I mean, I think that horse shit is... Yeah, mostly, I mean, it's debatable on what is important nowadays to all of us, you know what I mean? But also, your demo. young men or youngish men younger than me men is uh especially gen z like is uh is fascinating people in politics because it's the crisis of masculinity and we're on the front lines it's we're like you and we're like you in the ukraine when it comes to that so and the sirens are going off and you're just in the hotel eating the sirens are going off and all i can hear is joe rogan somehow still it's unbelievable the power of that guy it's unbelievable but it is really fascinating and i have a so my son is 15 And and I understand why Democrats are struggling so much, because they just don't speak any language that my son speaks. My son games. He plays football. He likes police. He is just not the band, the institution. No, not the band. I don't think he knows what the band is. My son likes police. You know, no police cops. He likes cops, not the TV show.

Like he thinks they're cool? Like, I don't understand. Like, what about a cop? He likes the military. He likes police. He's, I don't know. Whoa. How does he feel about minorities? He's, he's pro. But, I mean, I think the thing is awesome. But, no, but this might be something, because I guess he's Gen Z if he's 15. I think he might be. That's alpha, maybe. That might be even younger. So whatever he is. that stuff isn't even just discussed as much as it was when I was a kid. Like, no, definitely not. Like his friend group is mixed and like, I don't even, they don't even give each other shit for it or anything like that. You know what I mean? It's just, right. Right. Yeah. There's no, but I mean, is he pretty like, does he think you're cool or does he think you're a freak on TV? Um, no, I, I mean, I don't think he thinks I'm cool. I think he thinks I'm a good dad, you know, which is all, which is all I can. We'll take it. We'll take it. By the way, speaking of. Speaking of which, my daughter just got me for April Fool's. She just called me. Not the old pregnancy joke. No, no, no. I'll play it for you. Because she recorded it because she thought it was so funny. How long gone world exclusive? Something happened. Something really bad happened. I got caught using chat GPT in class, and I think I'm going to get suspended on my record. That is the most current April Fool's joke I could have possibly thought of. She's so smart. She's so smart. She's so fucking smart. She knew. Chip off the old blog. What would bother me the most? Yeah. Let me think. What is the thing that dad has been telling me for five years? Do not do this. I would rather you fail than you cheat using chat GPT or cheated. I would rather you get pregnant and move to Thailand than ever use AI technology. AI technology. Somebody's watching White Lotus. Of course. Of course. Ripe on the brain.

I'm the Sam Rockwell. He's the Walton Goggins. Is that, by the way, do you guys have predictions on who's, I assume next episode's the last episode. Oh, you haven't watched? No. Oh, okay. Yeah, next episode's the last episode. So do you have a prediction who the dead body in the serenity pool is? I mean... I want the Duke dad to just get it over with. I can't take another episode of him almost killing himself. Have you seen how much Duke University is freaking out about the fact that he... Yeah, they're not happy. I saw that yesterday. They're not happy. Let it go. Him wearing that Duke, it's the perfect Duke shirt as well for like a rich 60-year-old guy from the South to have. The gun to his head, it's such a great image. Duke's been through it. Between the lacrosse team and fucking White Lotus, Duke's had a tough time. Well, they've been doing to my heels over the years. That's the least. Oh, did you go to Chapel Hill? No, no, no. No. Neither of us went to college. He didn't even graduate high school. We're uneducated. Don't apologize. We're awesome. My mom went to Chapel Hill. That's why. I have some friends who are from North Carolina. So by default, I've learned that. supporting duke is bad yeah the duke is the but anyway by the way duke is the devil so who is so uh you know i i think i think guy talk is gonna have to prove that he is a man in order to win over lisa from black pink and i think he's going to accidentally shoot someone hold on hold on hold on hold on lisa from black pink is in white lotus i genuinely did not know this wow she plays like a young girl that works at the at the hotel i like the bucktooth chick though i think she's cool the one that you know what i'm talking about i don't know what her i don't know what her role is talking about jenna No, no, no. Yeah, the one in the show that's got the crazy teeth. The one that's dating Walt Goggins. Oh, yeah. She's amazing. She doesn't even have to say a word. Just her facial expressions are perfect. She's really good. What do you think of the Gogginsons? Because I think Goggins is kind of one of our, between Righteous Gemstones and this, I feel like he's kind of.

And he looks so insane that it's almost unbelievable how prolific he is. Have you guys ever watched Justified? The show Justified? No, I know. Go back and watch it. That was his first. Timothy Oliphant. Okay. Timothy Oliphant is a sheriff in Kentucky or a sheriff's deputy or something. And he is, or U.S. Marshal, whatever. And he is his nemesis. And he's fantastic. They're both fantastic, isn't it? Early going guys. My prediction is, and I'm sure I'll be wrong, but the guy. Maybe this is who you were talking about, but the guy who works at the hotel who is a Buddhist and peaceful, and he just went on a date with the girl, and she's unimpressed with his pacifism. I think he will prove himself, and he'll end up dead or something. So he's got the gun, but we learned at the shooting range that he's a pretty good shot, though. Yeah, I have no idea. They've done a good job of creating a lead-up to a finale where there's like 11,000 unanswered questions. Look, in the first two seasons, they killed off two huge characters. I mean, like, both times. Have you not watched any White Lotus? Nope. No interest. Really? He's more of a below-deck kind of guy. Yeah, I like Bravo. But also, sometimes things, like we were talking about earlier, because we have to pay attention so much to everything that's going on, sometimes with shows like that, they hit a fever pitch. where I feel like I've seen it because I've had to see it so much online that I don't even think I need to... Like, I forget to watch it. Like, I don't even care. I would at least watch the scene with... Well, I've seen that. That shit's amazing. That shit's amazing. Yeah, I saw it. Somebody sent me that. Somebody sent me that. Watching that, I was like watching the episode of The Last of Us when... with Nick Offerman and actually the same actor from the first season of White Lotus, the gay couple episode of The Last of Us. I was just like, oh, wow, this is going to win Emmys in a year. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, man. There's only so much I can take. I hear you. And I don't know how do you watch. I mean, it sounds like you watch a lot of TV. I watch some. I don't I can't come home and watch the news just because it's such a part of my life. I need to unless there's like something huge breaking. But like generally speaking, my wife and I find a show and we we write it. So right now we're watching.

The Residence on Netflix. It's a Shonda Rhimes joint. There's a murder of a butler in the residence of the White House. Oh, wow. It's got everything. Murder, White House. Yeah. I was looking up Mike White because I heard he had a show called Pasadena that he made in like 2001. It was on for like one season. Was it good? Never knew that. Apparently, it's awesome. apparently it's awesome it's impossible to find like we were looking for it yesterday because we had obviously hours to kill at the airport and it's like not streaming anywhere it's like kind of like erased from the internet but apparently it's great that's crazy how would how would hbo have i'll have to send a note to this was before well this is what i'm saying though but i'm just saying mike he has to deal with well maybe he doesn't own the ranks oh yeah he probably have you seen detroiters no yeah do you like i think you should leave do you like the show i think you should leave oh i haven't i haven't seen that either what No. You haven't seen I Think You Should Leave? No. Not for me, man. I mean, look, have you seen every season of Vanderpump Rules? Probably not. I have not seen even one second of Vanderpump Rules. Well, I'm looking up this Pasadena show. It premiered. September 2001. So maybe that's... Great timing. On Fox. Great timing. Great timing. Yeah, but it was like... But I just think that... He's a genius, though, Mike White. Yeah, he's awesome. Diane Keaton directed the pilot episode? Jeez Louise. What? This is crazy. Oh, wow, that is crazy. Well, look, I put you guys onto something. I've never even seen it. I'm going to check it out. I'm going to try to get people to... I think you can stream it. I think you might be able to stream it illegally. I would never recommend you do that. Maybe you could find a signed collector's copy of the DVD on eBay or something like that. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You just have to subscribe. to like um you know one of these series like to be yeah yeah well that's what i said to my wife in the airport i was like i didn't i didn't think there was any any show that wasn't on streaming at this point like i just it's hard to imagine that well all the the entire contents of quibi are gone well that's true and i know that hurt you personally i know you had a few pilots in the works over there i liked quibi no i it was the worst time uh

but a great idea of shows in 12-minute chunks. It's a great idea, and it just happened to launch during COVID when everybody was home and had nothing but time to watch TV. I see. So why did you think 12 minutes was a good idea? Because it's like a commute. It's like a metro or just like a bathroom break or whatever. Sure. Because with podcasts, I would say most people don't listen to things in one sitting. i i don't know i mean jason maybe you would disagree yeah it's very often i'll i'll pause when i arrive at my destination and revisit it on the way you know and pick it back up yeah yeah sure yeah but 12 12 minutes is yeah i mean look i'm i'm sorry i didn't get any to be money i'll say that i mean not i'm sorry i'm not bummed i didn't get any quibby money because a lot of people did yeah yeah it was a spectacularly poorly timed although i mean i don't know who knew who knew about the uh the covid uh pandemic but they had I want to talk to you a little bit about this Anna Delvey stuff because I'm over. Oh, yeah. That's the next episode of United States of Scandal. I know. Your producer told me this. Available on Max. I'm sick of Anna Delvey. Are you sick of her after doing this, or what is your take on it? I'm not sick of her because I do find her fascinating because I find her completely unrepentant. That is cool. I like that. is like a trait in a person that's committed a crime. And this is the second time I interviewed her and the first time I wasn't particularly kind. And she sat down with me again. And now at the time she sat down with me, she was on Dancing with the Stars and she had not been cut yet. So maybe she was promoting that. Spirits were high. Spoiler alert. I think that happened like six months ago. God damn it. But I think she's interesting as a cultural phenomenon. I mean, why was she such a huge story? Why were people so interested in her? I mean, the larceny was...

relatively small really it was like yeah for sure $250,000 I think that I think honestly she's not the first scammer who's done this so why her of all people yeah I think there's like a New Yorkness to it that people really gravitate towards like when something happens like downtown New York it's more newsworthy for whatever reason I think oh sure weather weather is a great example of that they have a rainstorm it leads all three you know ABC NBC CBS nightly news broadcasts but like a typhoon just carries idaho away and it's buried it's buried and you're right though but i think that has a lot and i also think that that her you know her she was like playing it up she was doing a lot of stuff i mean she she was gonna i mean i'm sure at one point she was pitched to come on this podcast i'm sure you know she was like making the rounds yeah but not only that she also i think one of the things that you can't first of all there was that i guess it was new york magazine story by or it was either new york or vanity fair about her. It was just a really well-told story by Jessica Pressler. And then Shonda did her show. Shonda Rhimes did her show being Anna, or whatever it's called. And that was fun to watch. It was fun to watch. It was really good. It had Julia Gardner from Ozark, and it was a really good show. And it was just stunning to watch this bizarre story play out. Yeah, it was kind of like that movie The Room. When everyone was like, this is some bullshit, but, like, I can't stop watching it. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, didn't Brie Larson, Brie Larson, won a... Yeah, she won, like, an Oscar for it. Yeah, she won an Oscar for it. I haven't seen it, but I know that. Well, I mean, was that the... No, not The Room. Not that one. Oh, I know what you're talking about. You're talking about an awful movie, and then Franco played that guy. Yeah, the Francos redid it, yeah. But basically... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's from 2000... i don't know a long time i never i never i never i was it was good no the movie was good but i mean the original where it's like i i can't just like the sound of delvey's voice and the sound of the guy's voice um johnny wiseau from the room right you're just like this is bad i hate this but i can't stop like because like no there's nobody else in the world who talks like this and has these mannerisms

You just can't stop looking at this freak. You know what I mean? There is something. There is some. And you can ride that wave because that's not something you could learn or teach. It's just in you. I agree. How badly do you think she wants to be famous, though? Well, I mean, I think, A, she is famous. Yes, but I think there's being famous and wanting to be famous. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yes. I think that the money is a bigger part of it than. Yeah, true, true. I think she wants wealth more than she. I think she wants wealth. and to be important more than she wants to be famous. I think if somebody had given her the choice between what she is now and lots of money and completely anonymous but, like, connected in society, she would have taken that. But that's just not the options in front of her. So now she's trying to – she's selling her art. I mean, have you seen this? She's – obviously, birthday coming up. What kind of art are we talking about, Jake? It's painting? Sculpture? Exactly. No, it's, you know. Drawings. Okay, some drawings on paper. I think it started with the kind of equipment that you could get in prison, yes. She might get deported, by the way. She might get deported. There's some talk of her, you know, she's not an American citizen, obviously, and there are questions about her. She was in prison for immigration, I think, for some immigration. Yeah, but you know what? She deserves to stay because her crimes are so distinctly American. You know, we have to kind of, we have to keep that pure. You know what I mean? Yeah, she was breaking our rules. Yeah. She probably wants a little attention, and then she'll go on Fox and praise President Trump, and then she'll be pardoned. Mm-hmm. The Kodak Black Method. Exactly. How long do you spend with someone like that, like, when you're doing the show? Like, how much time are you with her? An hour or two. Just the regular sit-down interview. Yeah, regular sit-down interview, yeah. Okay, you're not hanging out to kind of get the vibe and then doing the interview. Well, I remember it was the second time I met her, so I had kind of done that before because we had taped something before. You're not shadowing her for eight weeks. No. I don't have the time to do that anyway, but even if I did...

No, I think it was just really about the. It's not a Rolling Stone cover story in 2003. Oh, my God. No. But it's also it's, you know, the United States scandal is it's a story. Each one is an individual story. And this one is, you know, we have to tell the story of what she did. And so it's not just interviews with her. It's interviews with her associates, victims, et cetera, et cetera. People who wrote stories about her for magazines and newspapers. Presslers that pressers in it. Yeah. But but I think one of the things. that's fun about the series is having the distance from the scandal. So, you know, everything that happened and all the nuances and you have the perspective of, so like the oldest of all the scandals we did this season, um, the oldest one is ab scam, uh, which aired a couple of weeks ago. And that was really fascinating too, because I don't know what that is, but do you have a six pack? Is that what you're saying? Ab scam is, did you ever see, um, American hustle with, uh, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's that it's the FBI uses a con man to try to bribe members of Congress. And a lot of them take the bribes. And it's the first time it's like late 70s. So it's the first time that videotape is used. And so all these members of Congress go to jail. But what's what was interesting about is because we had the perspective of it was. It really was entrapment. I mean, like, it was complete and utter entrapment. None of these guys were on the radar of anybody, had done nothing wrong. I mean, I'm not singing their praises. They took bribes, most of them, but... I'm not above it. I'm not above it. It was a sting operation. How much did a congressman make, though? You know what I mean? A couple hundred thousand? Oh, at the time, it must have been, like, probably, like, they probably must... In the late 70s, they probably made like $37,000, $47,000. Yeah, and you know how much it costs to live in D.C. What are these guys supposed to do? You know what I mean? They need to evoke themselves. Whatever the evoke of the time was. So I'm not sharing your position on any of this. But I am saying it was definitely in traps. It was definitely. So is Delvey as new of a story as you'll go? That is the most recent story that we've done.

And, you know, these shows are definitely dependent on who can we book. So this season we did Enron. We still have Jack Abramoff and the Abramoff scandal from the Bush years and Anna Delvey. What else did we do? We did Clarence Thomas. So we sat down with Anita Hill. And there are a bunch. But I mean, what's interesting is just because generally speaking, you guys and I are the same in the sense that when I'm covering news and you're covering. stuff in pop culture and sports, et cetera. It's you're covering it as it's happening and trying to make sense of it and learning what you can and this drip, drip, drips and everyday new information and this and that. But but you get the perspective of the United States of scandal, which is like now we kind of know everything. And let's let's take a look. And so one of the things about Delvey is, I mean, I think, you know, she was obviously a crook and everything. But again, her crimes are relatively small compared to like what the pharmaceutical industry. or the health insurance industry, et cetera, et cetera, have been accused of doing. So, I mean, there is that perspective, too. I think you should watch it. That's what I'm saying. I think you should watch it. I watched the Valerie Plame episode. Oh, that was last year. Yeah, last season. What I was gathering from it as somebody who is a professional podcaster was you can kind of see the podcast style or structure influence on this show. I mean, it sounds dumb to say. you know, your documentary television shows like a video version of a podcast, but it kind of has some of that DNA that's been picked up from that style of podcast that's been popularized in the last few years. A hundred percent. I think podcasting has been an influence in a good way on documentaries and long-form broadcast journalism, a hundred percent. Yeah, I think the original... I guess concept or the idea in my mind of a documentary is like, I'm going to watch this thing. That's not going to be as entertaining, but the trade off is I will feel good about learning about things. Yeah. And then I really think in the last few years we've realized that that's, you know, it's a trade off that we like in the, in the style of a gluten free pasta or something like that. Like this works for me in terms of like entertainment level and, and virtuosity going on. And I think it's getting to a place where documentaries are like,

actually like truly entertaining and can be cut in a way that you're not just like looking at your watch watching a kenny burns doc you should never if you i mean if you if you do something that feels like broccoli people are going to change the channel there's just too much there's too many options they're just turn it off or just i mean you're competing with their phone anyway right i mean people are sitting in front of their tvs with their phone so you gotta storytelling is paramount. I think that's one of the parts of podcasting that has become important for long form TV journalism is, is that lesson of like this, this story and, and like, and whenever possible, although obviously you need to be a legion to the facts, but having an arc, having a three act structure, all of that. Yeah. I noticed also in the, in the title, like the beginning of the show, you're sort of breaking down what's going to happen and you're in a bar, you know, a DC style kind of bar where. You're going to sit next to a politician and catch a little gossip or something like that. And you've got a martini in your hand, which is very D.C. Everyone is a cool alcoholic there. I want to know what your martini is. Oh, so I am a vodka martini with a twist. Me too. Yeah. And the vodka, the most important part is that it just be ice cold. Ice cold. Do you do the bottle in the freezer, though? Yes. Yes. I don't do that. To me, it changes the viscosity to a level that I dislike. I'll tell you something, though. I think that vodka makes me mean in a way that bourbon doesn't. Does that make any sense? Well, it would make sense if you said the opposite because it's usually the other way around. Like brown alcohols are a little more violent and clears are a little more fun. Well, then I have the opposite chemistry. I just I think. I find myself being a little nastier when I have vodka. Okay. So the bullet bourbon on rocks, you're all smiles. You're a teddy bear. You're a golden retriever just having fun. Yeah. You hit the Stoli, and then you start calling people negative words, perhaps. I have some things I need to get off my chest. I need to get some things off my damn chest. Yeah.

Hand me another one. Okay. But I do like a Stoli martini. That was when I learned about martinis. That's very Gen X of you, to like the Stoli martini. Yeah, I learned about martinis. I don't like a dirty martini, but I like a couple olives maybe. That's what I had, Stoli martini. Yeah, to me, a martini, it should taste like burning, and that's the whole point of it. Yeah, I agree. That's the only flavor profile that should exist. Although I do say, I think a martini is a summer drink. I tend to think of it as a summer drink. Yeah, I mean, you don't want to have an extra cold thing. while you're in teeth clattering winter, you know? But when I was young, when I was like in my 20s, I would just order straight vodka. I mean, forget the vermouth. That's cool. Well, I think that's cutting to the chase in a young man's way, you know? I mean, it's going to get you to the same place just a little quicker. Vodka, vermouth. Olive. Yeah. For the people at home, I could barely see his finger move. Sorry about that. Before we wrap up, though, I wanted to also I know guys like you have to devour newspapers or news. So in the morning, how many newspapers do you read? I mean, I just tear through the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times. They're not physical copies on on iPad digital. Yeah. But I also subscribe to a ton of other papers like the L.A. Times, the Philadelphia Inquirer. Miami Herald, Minneapolis Star Tribune. And, you know, they send email versions of the paper and I'll see what they're highlighting and get a lot of different new story ideas because I think it's important to get. You know, I don't want the show to just have news from Washington and New York. I want it to be from all over the country. Sometimes it's tough. In the Trump era, it's tough because there's so much that's going on here. There's so much. You know him with his fire hose of information and news that he's providing. He is blanketing Washington with news. There's no time to worry about what's going on in Denver right now when Trump is in office. All hands on deck. I mean, as much as we can, but I always say as much as we can bring this story, like the stories that he is affecting wherever they are hitting. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Like if people are being arrested or deported or whatever in Denver, then let's bring the story out as much as possible. I have to say, you guys need to have me and my co-author Alex back when our Biden book comes out in May because.

I think you're going to, even though you're not political, political guys. We can do an hour on Sleepy Joe, no problem. You tell us when and when. I think you will find it a quick and shocking read. I will say that that whole storyline was pretty entertaining. Well, can you give us a tidbit about what might be shocking? I will just tell you this. I just did the audio book, and I wrote the book. I co-wrote the book with Alex. Even though I had reported it and I had edited the book and we'd gone over it several times, still, I would read a chapter and then I'd say, holy fuck, I still can't believe that happened. Because this is all the stuff that was going on. Who wrote this shit? This is a crazy story. Man, they killed this, bro. They really did that. I'm not praising my recording and I'm not praising my writing. I just can't believe this shit happened. I still can't fucking believe it happened. Okay, can you give me one little sliver? I can't. Okay. That's fine. You know he can't remember, Jason. He's already moved on to another book. I'm old. This is all stuff that has been already reported. No, it's stuff that has not been reported. He held some back. No, no, it's stuff I didn't learn until after the election. No, no. All of a sudden, like 99.5% of the book was reported after the election. No, no, no. I didn't know any of this stuff. the election was over then people felt like okay now i can talk yeah that's true and even then they wouldn't talk on the record they would tell us stuff on background or whatever but like still just like the stuff that we were so you crank this out quick that's impressive alex and i spent november december january writing it and then february and and a little bit of march that's the thing with these but it has to be i mean if it didn't it has to come out as soon as possible well i don't like yeah i mean we just want we wanted it out there and we wanted it now while people still When does it go? It comes out in May, you said? May 20th. All right, cool. We'll reach out and get on that week. Jake, if you're around, we're probably going to do a show in D.C. Oh, when? Sometime during the summer. We would love to have you join us on stage. Oh, 100%. Chop it up. All right, cool. We'll holler at you. And thank you for joining us today. It was a pleasure. Oh, so much fun. Thanks, Jake. Thank you so much. All right, later, bro.

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